Ask an Anarchist!

[Ajidica]

To set a more realistic example, supposedly 80% of people support the new TSA scanners. That gives them no right, in my opinion, to deprive the other 20% of their freedoms.

That argument rests entirely on the basis that the new scanners/pat-downs are depriving people of their freedom, which they are not.

 

[civver_764]

To set a more realistic example, supposedly 80% of people support the new TSA scanners. That gives them no right, in my opinion, to deprive the other 20% of their freedoms.

Would you agree? If so, how would you deal with it?

So you are again making an argument against statism

How I would I deal with it? Probably the same way those protesters were on the 24th. I'm not saying that all issues of freedom will go away, this would be part of the process I talked about.

Can you explain how something is brought to a vote? Would there be some kind of filibuster system for non-economic issues so certain people could block it from coming to vote?

I honestly have no idea. It would be kind of against anarchist principles to pre-determine what a society of self-managed people who operate like.

Probably causes a lot of theft, but other than that I highly doubt much is caused by capitalism.

And then they become hardened criminals in prison while serving their time.

And how do you know that?

Because a) the Bible contradicts itself, and b) There's no evidence anyways and zero reason for me to assume so.

Has anyone ever said that? The Christian view is that mankind is inherently sinful and since they have SINNED, not because they don't believe, is why we need a savior. Good people do absolutely go to heaven, but that would require perfection. Once you have sinned, you are condemned and must be saved through Christ, the perfect sacrifice.

Sugarcoat it all you want, it's the same idea.

 

[Ajidica]

Everything I've heard about Makhno(admittedly little) suggests so. He does seem to get slandered by Leninists a lot.

Could you explain please?
The Leninsts believed they could build Communism but after Lenin the USSR turned far too dictatorial to turn into a Communist society.
I haven't read much about Makhno, but wasn't he sort of hard-line and bloody?

 

[pob]

The Christian view is that mankind is inherently sinful and since they have SINNED, not because they don't believe, is why we need a savior. Good people do absolutely go to heaven, but that would require perfection. Once you have sinned, you are condemned and must be saved through Christ, the perfect sacrifice.

Some Christians' view is that mankind is condemned because of the original sin of Adam, not because of the first sin we ever commit after birth. Also, once condemned, why must you be saved through Christ: why doesn't the Jewish method of animal sacrifice atone for sin? (sorry for offtopicness)

Anarchists would be free to believe whatever they wanted as long as they did not infringe the rights of others; brainwashing your kids could be seen as infringing their freewill on what to believe, but something could only be done if the kids spoke out against it themselves.

I think here this is a big flaw in anarchism: the weak are not protected from abuse from others and they are not strong enough to stand up for themselves.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Some Christians' view is that mankind is condemned because of the original sin of Adam, not because of the first sin we ever commit after birth.

My personal belief is that we are sinful at conception because of our sin nature, but if we are too young or mentally impaired to believe, I believe that God chooses to forgive us.

Also, once condemned, why must you be saved through Christ: why doesn't the Jewish method of animal sacrifice atone for sin? (sorry for offtopicness)

Because it was never intended too, it was a temporary covering. The Jews were saved in the Old Testament by belief in the future Messiah.

Anarchists would be free to believe whatever they wanted as long as they did not infringe the rights of others; brainwashing your kids could be seen as infringing their freewill on what to believe, but something could only be done if the kids spoke out against it themselves.

Can you define brainwashing? Does teaching them your belief system constitute brainwashing?

 

[pob]

Can you define brainwashing? Does teaching them your belief system constitute brainwashing?

Maybe brainwashing was the wrong word to use. In this case, I meant where a parent might restrict the child's freedom to investigate other belief systems.


I'll make another thread for the religious debate.

 

[Yeekim]

Q: What is an anarchist?
A: An anarchist is generally someone who believes that a) all hierarchy requires justification and that b) the state fails to justify itself and is thus undesirable.

Based on what have you reached such a conclusion?
EDIT: Are you saying that few thousand years of statism compare unfavourably to the hundreds of thousands of years of anarchism in the history of mankind?

 

[bernie14]

Depends on what is necessary, I suppose. Could be a polite request to stop, could be a bit of Freestyle Neck Dangling, or anywhere in between. Same as contemporary statism, really, but with the general good in mind, rather than that of the ruling class.

then dont those who decide on the "general good" become the ruling class?....which quality exactly do we need to develop or aquire to be able to finally decide on “the greater good”….i mean, both u and I probably have quite a few traits in common, probably both considerate individuals, never robbed a freight train I assume, both enjoy games of world domination, but for god’s sake, we would not even be able to agree to whether they should serve shrimp as an appetizer at the “let’s decide what’s for the greater good” luncheon….

 

[Traitorfish]

then dont those who decide on the "general good" become the ruling class?....which quality exactly do we need to develop or aquire to be able to finally decide on “the greater good”….i mean, both u and I probably have quite a few traits in common, probably both considerate individuals, never robbed a freight train I assume, both enjoy games of world domination, but for god’s sake, we would not even be able to agree to whether they should serve shrimp as an appetizer at the “let’s decide what’s for the greater good” luncheon….

Democracy

Noun (plural democracies)

1. Rule by the people, especially as a form of government; either directly or through elected representatives (representative democracy).

5chars

 

[Berzerker]

1) There is no competition in social anarchism.
2) You wouldn't be able to out compete mass confederations of syndicates.
3) You wouldn't want to subject yourself to that kind of authority when there are clearly better options easily available to you.

Because you needed money.

1) there's always competition, unless its banned
2) we should be free to find out
3) you never know, the prospect of making a mil might intrigue some "cogs" in the workers machine

And my boss didn't make me need money, you're blaming them for nature's "coercion" and you dont apply that standard to your own ideology.

 

[Traitorfish]

1) there's always competition, unless its banned

That depends on the form of the economy; there are various different models which could be undertaken, market-based, planned or otherwise.

2) we should be free to find out

Perhaps, just don't expect the proletariat to indulge you in that.

 

[Berzerker]

they can vote with their $$$

 

[Traitorfish]

Their "$$$" and their labour, yes. Have fun running a profitless company staffed only by delinquents.

 

[Berzerker]

but what happens if that "private" business kicks butt? That seems to be the problem with "collectivist" ideologies no matter how benign. How do you stop the brainiac from inventing and outproducing the "co-op"? Plenty of people would be happy to work for such a person...

 

[civver_764]

Could you explain please?
The Leninsts believed they could build Communism but after Lenin the USSR turned far too dictatorial to turn into a Communist society.
I haven't read much about Makhno, but wasn't he sort of hard-line and bloody?

I'm sorry, all I know is what I've heard from other Anarchists. They praise the Russian Revolution and the anarchists in it but I don't know much about Makhno himself.

Based on what have you reached such a conclusion?

Based on the fact that I don't want the state because it causes a ridiculous amount of problems yet it is forced on me.

EDIT: Are you saying that few thousand years of statism compare unfavourably to the hundreds of thousands of years of anarchism in the history of mankind?

I'm not an anarcho-primitivist, no. Some people would definitely say that. I think we need to move even more forward.

1) there's always competition, unless its banned
2) we should be free to find out
3) you never know, the prospect of making a mil might intrigue some "cogs" in the workers machine

1) Unless people decide to work together, that is.
2) Have at it.
3) I don't think you understand how this works.

And my boss didn't make me need money, you're blaming them for nature's "coercion" and you dont apply that standard to your own ideology.

So if I have the cure for cancer and you have cancer and I make you suck my dick before I give it to you did I exploit you?

 

[amadeus]

So if I have the cure for cancer and you have cancer and I make you suck my dick before I give it to you did I exploit you?

No, you didn't.

 

[useless]

Yet another person who is prepared to violate individual rights for the "general good".

Haven't we heard this from the Nazis, Islamists and communists already? [Which incidentally is what you are, I don't know why you pretend to be some kind of an anarchist Traitorfish].

Anyway, real anarchists would not hang people for the "general good". There is something called individual freedom that real anarchists [ie not you and civver] believe in. But as for you communists, I would expect contradictory beliefs and oppression without end.

"You are a muslim" - Ayn Rand 26-11-2010, 11:44

 

[Left]

No, you didn't.

If you mean what I think you mean, this may be the most reprehensible post I have ever seen on CFC.

Sexual degradation of the ill and extortion are not exploitation?

 

[Perfection]

Good people do absolutely go to heaven, but that would require perfection.

Does Perfection have to go to heaven? I wanna hang out with Carl Sagan.

 

[Perfection]

Well they're exploiting your need to eat in order to steal from you.

No, I'm exploiting their need for Electronic expertise in order to buy cute little cars, gadgets and shiny wood flooring.