Ask an atheist
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Terxpahseyton
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That's where I probably read it.
I'll try to sum up what I gained from it:
Lots of religions clashed in Czechia, and each one would try to convert everybody, many using force, and so over the generations the entire population became utterly disenchanted with the whole idea.
Lots of religions clashed in Czechia, and each one would try to convert everybody, many using force, and so over the generations the entire population became utterly disenchanted with the whole idea.
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
We've had several.
I dont wanna read the entire thread
but does modern cosmology challenge your lack of "religion"?
I think our expanding knowledge of the cosmos is a challenge to both believers and atheists
+1 for the agnostics
No... why should it?
I was raised essentially without religion. I went to church a handful of times, but it was never something my family really did.
My mother specifically refused to answer me when I asked her questions about god, or whether she believed in god, and when my father wanted us to go to church with his sister, she was more receptive to my objections than he was. (I didn't want to go because I didn't want to wear the dress.) She later said she wouldn't tell me because she didn't want to influence me. I don't remember ever really talking to my father about the subject.
I did very briefly get it in my head that I "ought" to read the bible and go to church and so forth, when I was maybe 8 or 11 or something like that. I started looking at the bible and saying a few prayers at night and stuff. The Tamagotchi I got in fifth grade held my interest longer than that did. Looking back, it's plainly clear that I couldn't simply choose to believe something for no reason.
And, I suppose, that's my entire history. I had no reason to believe, so I never did. Nobody ever told me not to, or disparaged religion or religiosity*, it was just one of those things that other people did. I never saw the point of doing it.
*Turns out my mother has long been atheist, and I'm pretty sure my father just doesn't care about the topic. After I was grown enough to have reached my own conclusions, we'd joke at the expense of flamboyantly religious folks. "Jesus people" is a term I started using with them in my mid-teens.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I was brought up as an obedient Catholic boy who confessed his sins and collected Mary/Jesus/saints trading cards (seriously, they were awesome)
It took me a while but eventually I figured out that the whole deal was a bunch of crap.. I think I was 14 or 15.
mangxema
I
Was gone over the weekend, so skimming heavily:
'God', I think, would be impossible for me. I do not think that what is often called God (omnipotent, omniscient, etc.) is even plausible as a concept. However, I am open to a more relaxed version, which for simplicity and clarity I'll call Bob. In a nutshell, Bob has profound limitations, but they are so far from our understanding that we can't even conceive of them. (Think of how you thought of your dad as a kid.) Bob is not omniscient; he's just much, much more advanced than we are. That's honestly about as far as I could go.
Now does Bob exist? Hard to say. On the one hand, I'm inclined to say no since we have no proof. However, this is basically a more extreme form of 'Is there life on other planets?' to which, when you consider the mind-boggling bigness of the universe, I'd have to say there's a decent chance. It would be fairly easy to convince me that Bob exists--just meet him, basically--but it wouldn't affect my life at all, but that's not really what you asked is it? There's no creation or heaven or sin or anything relating to Bob.
Well, to be fair, a lot of religious people (or at the very least, lots of very vocal religious people) say stupid things about science that one would know were stupid from a little basic research. And a lot of atheists are in science-related fields. So when you see stupidity that is consistently paired with their beliefs, it's hard to not think that maybe their beliefs are stupid. Granted, I know not all religious people are like this--and really, I don't see much of it here on OT--but I haven't seen much PR of churches totally on board with science (also known as "testing how reality works") and given that, it's easy to get a poor impression.
I definitely wasn't raised an atheist, but I never 'deconverted' either. Religion just never made much sense to me. Basically, I went to church because I had to, but felt really silly and uncomfortable there, especially during Sunday school. I gave it a solid chance around confirmation time (which although I objected to, I had to do), but the next summer I had abundant time to think it and I quickly regretted the whole thing.
'God', I think, would be impossible for me. I do not think that what is often called God (omnipotent, omniscient, etc.) is even plausible as a concept. However, I am open to a more relaxed version, which for simplicity and clarity I'll call Bob. In a nutshell, Bob has profound limitations, but they are so far from our understanding that we can't even conceive of them. (Think of how you thought of your dad as a kid.) Bob is not omniscient; he's just much, much more advanced than we are. That's honestly about as far as I could go.
Now does Bob exist? Hard to say. On the one hand, I'm inclined to say no since we have no proof. However, this is basically a more extreme form of 'Is there life on other planets?' to which, when you consider the mind-boggling bigness of the universe, I'd have to say there's a decent chance. It would be fairly easy to convince me that Bob exists--just meet him, basically--but it wouldn't affect my life at all, but that's not really what you asked is it? There's no creation or heaven or sin or anything relating to Bob.
Well, to be fair, a lot of religious people (or at the very least, lots of very vocal religious people) say stupid things about science that one would know were stupid from a little basic research. And a lot of atheists are in science-related fields. So when you see stupidity that is consistently paired with their beliefs, it's hard to not think that maybe their beliefs are stupid. Granted, I know not all religious people are like this--and really, I don't see much of it here on OT--but I haven't seen much PR of churches totally on board with science (also known as "testing how reality works") and given that, it's easy to get a poor impression.
I definitely wasn't raised an atheist, but I never 'deconverted' either. Religion just never made much sense to me. Basically, I went to church because I had to, but felt really silly and uncomfortable there, especially during Sunday school. I gave it a solid chance around confirmation time (which although I objected to, I had to do), but the next summer I had abundant time to think it and I quickly regretted the whole thing.
I was raised to be Pentecostal, but late in my 20th (2005) year I walked away from that. Church was useless and I abhorred the Pentecostal god. Later I got into skepticism and humanism (2006). Then one day I thought, "What if there IS no 'God'?" and boom -- the curtains fell, and there was this little old man behind them. I just laughed and walked away. The moment I started looking at Christianity with the same eyes as I looked at Islam or other religions, I was free.
GhostWriter16
Deity
@Mangxema- I think your post, if nothing else, creates an interesting discussion of what "God" is. Were the Greek deities "Gods?" While they were worshipped that way, I argue no. The Greek Gods were totally fallible, and more like advanced superheroes (Forgive the crude analogy) than deities.
I think I draw the line at this: Is "Bob" able to control (Whether he actually does or not doesn't matter) the state of humans after death, and did he create the Universe out of nothing (Doesn't mean he couldn't have used the Big Bang or whatever, but he had to create the first spark from nothing.) If you can't answer yes to either of those two, I'd not consider him a God, but rather, an advanced alien.
I think I draw the line at this: Is "Bob" able to control (Whether he actually does or not doesn't matter) the state of humans after death, and did he create the Universe out of nothing (Doesn't mean he couldn't have used the Big Bang or whatever, but he had to create the first spark from nothing.) If you can't answer yes to either of those two, I'd not consider him a God, but rather, an advanced alien.
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
I think most atheists will agree that the types of gods they're not interested in are the supernatural ones that cannot be explained by or consistent with the physical laws of nature. Advanced technology doesn't have to be magic.
I have a different take on the Greek gods, outside the scope of this thread, but suffice that if they were literal, they were still the type of god I reject. If they were metaphorical, I can embrace the idea.
I have a different take on the Greek gods, outside the scope of this thread, but suffice that if they were literal, they were still the type of god I reject. If they were metaphorical, I can embrace the idea.
Different question. Faith simply refers to what people believe, whereas religion encompasses formal structures (such as the Church) and dogma.
Personally I would argue that believing there is no God is exactly intelectually equivalent to believing that there is a God. Having conclusive knowledge one way or the other would require an understanding greater than (the concept of) God, which by definition we mere mortals will never have. Is it hubris which convinces Athiests that theirs is not a faith, like any other?
That's true of everything. Indeed, even people like Dawkins states he doesn't know God (or anything else like God) doesn't exist. There's just no more reason to believe in God than there is in any deity on this list.
So I don't categorically say God can't exist. No rationalist would say something like that. But I'll hedge my bets.
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
There's neither Cthulhu nor Azathoth on that list. Therefore, I declare it flawed, just like the Pascal's Wager
Passive like writing about it on an internet forum?
Zack
99% hot gas
Um, what?
My point is that posting your thoughts on Athiesm on the internet betrays somewhat more than passive disbelief.
Zack
99% hot gas
Oh, I know what you meant. Just doesn't make any sense.
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
Most adult atheists do not claim conclusive knowledge of the nonexistence of gods. The difference is that theists are supposing something exists, and assigning characteristics to it.
If you were to push it, okay, I'd concede that I have faith that there is no god. That does not constitute a faith any more than not believing in fairies is a faith. (I have faith that there are no fairies.) I don't see why that is meaningful.
Your last sentence betrays your motives. I'm tired of being called arrogant for refusing to subscribe to the belief that anything divine gives a crap about me personally. If there's hubris, it's on the part of those that think the universe was created for them, or on the part of those that proselytize.
Just answering questions. Do you believe in fairies? If you answer that, does that indicate you have faith regarding fairies? Does that actually mean anything?
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