Ask an atheist

[GhostWriter16]

I would agree. Promote freethought, and belief in deities and ghosts will die on its own.

I believe in free thought, but I don't agree that that will mean that deities will no longer be believed in.

For an off the record question: What was your Church like? I know it was Pentecostal, but some of them are similar to other Evangelicals, while others are totally crazy.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Ask an atheist:
1)How do you decide how much charity to give and where to give it? 2) Do you think that charity giving is noble? 3)Should morality which encourages it be developed? 4)What're some of the things which prevent charity giving? 5)Is it okay that it's 'easier' (emotionally) to give to charity close-to-home than far away? 6) Do you think that if you were a believer in a religious faith, you'd give more to charity or 'be nicer'?

1) I'm going to assume that volunteering = giving to charity, so yes (specifically 8hrs per week teaching English to asylum seekers). If I'm wrong you owe me a beer.
2) Yes, if properly thought through (e.g. no point giving money to an unreformed alcaholic).
3) Yes, with same proviso as 2.
4) a) where the "charity" is a front for indoctrination, b) where it prevents the receivers from improving their situation, c) where it is a condescending "I'm better than you" exercise.
5) I would say it's easier to give for causes which have a single emblematic "victim" than a group of "victims". Distance from me is probably not that big of an issue.
6) Categorically no, and probably it would make me worse on both counts.

 

[cardgame]

No, "Fundies" think it will actually gain the person something, or spare them of some punishment, or something. Atheist proselyting only tears families and people apart.

Whiskey Lord's conversion may enlighten you...

au contraire, I seek to free people from their bonds. I and others have expressed on this forum that we felt very liberated and free when we discovered there was no god.

 

[GhostWriter16]

au contraire, I seek to free people from their bonds. I and others have expressed on this forum that we felt very liberated and free when we discovered decided there was no god.

I fixed thy post, for you cannot "Discover" the absense of something, especially something that does in fact exist

 

[Smellincoffee]

I believe in free thought, but I don't agree that that will mean that deities will no longer be believed in.

For an off the record question: What was your Church like? I know it was Pentecostal, but some of them are similar to other Evangelicals, while others are totally crazy.

Oh, people will maintain their mystic indulgences, but systems of belief and doctrines will be over. I'm as atheist as they come, but I've had mystical experiences.

As for my church: it started out as a home missions church run by the United Pentecostal church international. I've got a detailed account of what their doctrines are like, but in essence: the UPCI is on the crazy side. They don't do snake-handling, but that's about all I can say for them. I tend to conflate the UPCI and Pentecostalism in general, but a few key points:
1. The King James Version is the Word of God, always right, must be followed, etc.
2. People are born bad and worthy of being set on fire, but God has a plan.
3. The plan is Acts 2:38 (repent, be baptized, receive the holy ghost)
4. Baptism must be done via full immersion, and in "Jesus name".
5. You only know you have the Holy Ghost if you've spoken in tongues and you feel different.
6. To keep the holy ghost you must abstain from sin and strive to be like God, which means following holiness standards. Men must look like Mr. Brady -- no facial hair, no longish hair. Pants. No jewelry. Women must wear dresses, can not wear make up, cannot cut their hair. Worldy entertainment is forbidden. Until recently this included televisions, but they're trying to change that.
7. People have a duty to worship god, which means screaming at him in tongues, running in circles, falling on the floor, that kind of thing.
8. You can't go into heaven if you have spot of sin, you have to be in a constant state of paranoia and repentence.
9. Very authoritarian: so long as the preacher isn't breaking UPCI doctrine, you must take his word as the Gospel Truth and follow his every command. If he's wrong, God will punish him: but if you disobey, you get punished regardless. My last preacher was very keen on this, and he's turned his congregation into a kind of cult.

I think that covers the basics. The UPCI is sometimes called a cult, and for good reason: they're very keen on maintaining environmental control over their people, and very authoritarian as I mentioned before .

 

[Brian Shanahan]

This is totally misrepresenting. I said that Atheist proselyting doesn't make sense. I did NOT say it should be prohibited. Actually read my posts next time.

Dommy I used read my posts, but as they were you saying one thing then trying to say you didn't say that one thing, or personal attacks on those who didn't believe what you believe exactly (to the point where you were arguing that they did not deserve the right of free speech), one of whom was myself, I decided for my own good to not bother listening to you any more. What is the point in listening to a broken record which continuously repeats the same small snatch of discordant noise, because that is all you are.

 

[Perfection]

Atheist proselyting only tears families and people apart.

I'm not exactly sure what constitutes "Atheist proselyting", but I should note that we do believe there are very important reasons to express our beliefs in the nonexistence of God (more then just that we appreciate the truth and want to share it). God is a central element in many religions. These religions in many ways promote harmful beliefs that result in real negative consequences for the world (such as homophobia, science denial, and terrorism).

Atheist proselyting only tears families and people apart.

I think it's important to see past worldviews when interacting with people. Familial bonds should not be based on shared worldview, sadly for many religious people (I suppose it's true for some nonreligious people too, but probably less so), such a proposition is unacceptable.

 

[Perfection]

I fixed thy post, for you cannot "Discover" the absense of something

So you never discovered that Santa doesn't exist?

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Looks like it's time for more clarification since my little story was invoked.

I really don't care what my friends or family believe in just as long as they don't insist that I believe it too. The thing is that my parents are so mired in their beliefs that I believe there's a good chance they would cut me off if they ever found out. As for former friends, I do not mourn their loss. Anyone who would stop associating with me just because I stopped believing isn't even worth knowing. Religious bigotry is to be blamed for alienating people, not lack of belief. Personally, it would be hypocritical of me to judge others for believing in the supernatural.

As for 'atheist proselytizing' I'm not sure what that even means. Simply trying to prove that religion is false isn't going to persuade anyone. You have to espouse whatever morality you choose and argue why it is superior (example: you might consider me a material humanist in most respects).

 

[warpus]

These religions in many ways promote harmful beliefs that result in real negative consequences for the world (such as homophobia, science denial, and terrorism).

And in some cases even bacophobia

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

To me, it is not what you believe, but the certainty you hold that you're right and everyone else is wrong, in spite of evidence to the contrary, which is dangerous.

Skepticism and doubt are healthy, and allow you to accept, learn from, and recover from errors in thought.

Unwarranted certainty leads to refusal to accept new evidence, refusal to admit error, refusal to learn, and can even lead to such dangerous thoughts as "knowing" that God would approve of certain kinds of murder because it's in "his" name, and therefore one is simply carrying out "his" divine justice.

Doubt is what makes a man sane. Faith is what can drive a man insane. Belief is not the problem, "certainty" is.

 

[LucyDuke]

Atheist proselyting only tears families and people apart.

Wow, no.

I fixed thy post, for you cannot "Discover" the absense of something, especially something that does in fact exist

Can you like... not do that? In this thread? Discussion is good, but snipes like that are not constructive.

Belief is not a decision. Intelligent people generally do not hold beliefs that contradict their experiences and knowledge. Beliefs that are dissonant with reality don't work.

It is possible to decide to express belief. But none of the atheists here decided god does not exist. We concluded god does not exist, or realized it. Our experiences and beliefs and knowledge were inconsistent with god existing, and those factors outweighed whatever (upbringing, evangelism, comfort-seeking, whatever) would compel us to believe that god exists.

You believe god exists. Good for you. When somebody snarks about sky-daddy, or a zombie jew, do you really give a crap what they're saying? Threads like this are to ask for and offer perspective. We're not going to prove god doesn't exist, or necessarily try to convince you that god doesn't exist. We're going to tell you why we believe that, what it makes us think about things, what exactly we believe. I don't post in most "discuss the existence of god" threads anymore because I'm bored with defending my beliefs against petty crap. Please don't turn this thread into that by being pointlessly inflammatory.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Atheist proselyting only tears families and people apart.

Utter bollocks.

 

[Maniacal]

Atheist proselyting only tears families and people apart.

Haha... No.

What would tear a family apart is if members of the family are so bigoted and prejudiced that they refuse to accept that someone in the family has different beliefs. Nor is this limited to atheism.

EDIT: Also [citation needed].

 

[LucyDuke]

Atheist proselyting only tears families and people apart.

Since that got such a reaction, maybe you should try to explain what you meant.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Didn't Jesus say (paraphrasing) that Christian proselytizing would also tear families apart?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Don't ask me, what you know is true.
Don't have to tell you, I love your precious heart.

I, I was standing.
You were there
Two worlds collided
And they could never tear us apart

 

[Leoreth]

Atheist proselyting only tears families and people apart.

Oh, please, now you're genuinely malicious.

The only times I've heard of people being expelled from their communities was - surprise - because they didn't conform with their religious laws.

 

[Lone Wolf]

...Men must look like Mr. Brady -- no facial hair, no longish hair...

What?! Shaving your beard is exactly what you should NOT do! It's a personal offence to God and encourages sodomy!

 

[GhostWriter16]

As for my church: it started out as a home missions church run by the United Pentecostal church international. I've got a detailed account of what their doctrines are like, but in essence: the UPCI is on the crazy side. They don't do snake-handling, but that's about all I can say for them. I tend to conflate the UPCI and Pentecostalism in general, but a few key points:

A lot of these doctrines are really crazy. I'm Evangelical (I attend a Baptist Church) and I still think your church is insane. And note, not all Pentecostals are crazy, or at least, not as much as other churches. I'd encoruage you not to discount all Christianity out of hand because of your nutty church. If I had attended that Church, I may have become atheist as well. Thank the Lord this did not happen.

1. The King James Version is the Word of God, always right, must be followed, etc.

I HAVE heard of people teaching this, but its not mainstream.

2. People are born bad and worthy of being set on fire, but God has a plan.

This is standard Christian doctrine, or at least, standard Evangelical doctrine.

3. The plan is Acts 2:38 (repent, be baptized, receive the holy ghost)

Most Churches I know of don't consider Baptism essential for Salvation.

4. Baptism must be done via full immersion, and in "Jesus name".

Well, that WAS how it was done. This isn't that crazy.

5. You only know you have the Holy Ghost if you've spoken in tongues and you feel different.

Yeah, this is where it gets crazy. I've heard that some Pentecostals think this, but most don't. Most DO believe in some form of speaking in tongues (They think God gives them the ability to speak the tongues of the angels), but they do not always believe everyone is supposed to have this gift, and very few think that it is essential for Salvation. It seems you've got a VERY fundamentalist Church, well beyond what Scripture teaches.

6. To keep the holy ghost you must abstain from sin and strive to be like God, which means following holiness standards. Men must look like Mr. Brady -- no facial hair, no longish hair. Pants. No jewelry. Women must wear dresses, can not wear make up, cannot cut their hair. Worldy entertainment is forbidden. Until recently this included televisions, but they're trying to change that.

Abstaining from Sin is important, but anything that is "Sin" is prohibited in Scripture. Not obeying the above is not sin. In fact, the Bible specifically condemns your churches stance.

7. People have a duty to worship god, which means screaming at him in tongues, running in circles, falling on the floor, that kind of thing.

People do have a duty to worship God, but after that, your church got totally insane with their beliefs.

8. You can't go into heaven if you have spot of sin, you have to be in a constant state of paranoia and repentence.

We should repent for any sin we know we have, but your church is clearly wrong on the rest of it. Biblical Teaching teaches that Salvation cannot be lost by sinning (Although some think it can be lost by total apostasy, although I do not.)

9. Very authoritarian: so long as the preacher isn't breaking UPCI doctrine, you must take his word as the Gospel Truth and follow his every command. If he's wrong, God will punish him: but if you disobey, you get punished regardless. My last preacher was very keen on this, and he's turned his congregation into a kind of cult.

I think that covers the basics. The UPCI is sometimes called a cult, and for good reason: they're very keen on maintaining environmental control over their people, and very authoritarian as I mentioned before .

I think your church in particular (And not Pentecostals in general) is a sort of cult, and is so off the ball, Fundamentalist to even most Pentecostals, exc. I'd consider you to actually go to an Evangelical (Not wacked out off the ball fundamnetalist) church before judging them all out of hand as being 100% wrong, evil, whatever...

Dommy I used read my posts, but as they were you saying one thing then trying to say you didn't say that one thing, or personal attacks on those who didn't believe what you believe exactly (to the point where you were arguing that they did not deserve the right of free speech), one of whom was myself, I decided for my own good to not bother listening to you any more. What is the point in listening to a broken record which continuously repeats the same small snatch of discordant noise, because that is all you are.

I never suggested anyone did not deserve the right to freedom of speech, except hyperbolicly.

Oh, please, now you're genuinely malicious.

The only times I've heard of people being expelled from their communities was - surprise - because they didn't conform with their religious laws.

I did not mean that atheists intentionally tore families apart, but rather, that some families would disown their children if they didn't follow the religion (Which is a horrible thing, but it does happen), it could make the family sad and upset, exc.