Ask an atheist

[Akka]

Why do atheists care what happens in this life, if nothing happens after it? Is there any real reason to do anything before you die if, after you die, none of it really matters (or does it)? Where do you find meaning in life, when it is so ephemeral?

The absurdity of considering something worthless just because it's not eternal has already been answered in this thread.

Let me quote myself :
"So what ?
You're dating a woman. Do you consider your love with her pointless and worthless just because in two years you may or may not be still together ?
You're spending an afternoon with friends and are having a blast. Does it make your friendship worthless and pointless just because some day you may not be friend with them anymore ?
You're eating a delicious dinner. Is this the same as fast-fooding yourself in a crappy McDonald just because one hour later you'll no longer have the taste in mouth ? "

And anyway, worth of life doesn't make God more or less valid. In fact, it strongly hints that what push you to believe in God is not his supposed existence, but that you're frightened by what it would imply to have no god - once again, a good example of why religion exists, more because of human psyche than actual reality.

 

[Midgard Eagle]

Respectfully, I don't get that one either. Surely if this life is all we have, that means there's all the more reason to cherish it and "savour every bite", not the other way around?

 

[ArneHD]

Because life can be good. Let's live it.

 

[peter grimes]

...the more unique the human species is, the more likely it seems that there is more to life than what an atheism believes.

But this is where you are fundamentally in error:
Humans are not unique. We are a one spot along a continuum of collections of genes that happens to be on the planet for now. There is nothing at all unique about humans.

Yes, we're better than many other animals at some things, like Spoken Language, Novel Tool Manufacture, Mind Reading, etc. But there are vastly more things that humans *can't* do that other animals (and plants, fungi, bacteria, et alia) do all the time!

We can't echolocate;
can't see in infrared;
don't perceive ultraviolet;
don't can't communicate using chem-trails;
can't regrow limbs;
don't have an efficient division of labor;
can't stay awake all day [EDIT: night] long;
can't survive more than a few days without water;
don't have the ability to remember more than a handful of items at any one time;
and so on....

Why do you think Humans are unique? I'd guess it's because you are one.

I guess everything can be traced back to some evolutionary utility,...

Wrong. This is an outdated idea. Unless there is a selective pressure most mutations are blind to selection. Just because peoples' bodies are built a certain way, or work a certain way, or we behave a certain way, doesn't automatically invoke an explanation grounded in evolutionary theory. Genetic drift is real and documented. Sexual selection is real and documented.

 

[GoodGame]

Do you belong to an Atheist social group? Do you feel that it's an Atheist's duty to promote a public understanding of Atheist? Do you believe in separation of church and state?

 

[Linkman226]

But this is where you are fundamentally in error:
Humans are not unique. We are a one spot along a continuum of collections of genes that happens to be on the planet for now. There is nothing at all unique about humans.

Yes, we're better than many other animals at some things, like Spoken Language, Novel Tool Manufacture, Mind Reading, etc. But there are vastly more things that humans *can't* do that other animals (and plants, fungi, bacteria, et alia) do all the time!

We can't echolocate;
can't see in infrared;
don't perceive ultraviolet;
don't can't communicate using chem-trails;
can't regrow limbs;
don't have an efficient division of labor;
can't stay awake all day long;
can't survive more than a few days without water;
don't have the ability to remember more than a handful of items at any one time;
and so on....

Why do you think Humans are unique? I'd guess it's because you are one.


Wrong. This is an outdated idea. Unless there is a selective pressure most mutations are blind to selection. Just because peoples' bodies are built a certain way, or work a certain way, or we behave a certain way, doesn't automatically invoke an explanation grounded in evolutionary theory. Genetic drift is real and documented. Sexual selection is real and documented.

Also there's all the bad stuff we do that other animals don't or do on a much lesser scale, i.e., genocide, murder, war, drugs, etc.

Do you belong to an Atheist social group? Do you feel that it's an Atheist's duty to promote a public understanding of Atheist? Do you believe in separation of church and state?

Yes, yes, yes

 

[peter grimes]

Do you belong to an Atheist social group? Do you feel that it's an Atheist's duty to promote a public understanding of Atheist? Do you believe in separation of church and state?

I don't belong to a social group.

I do, however, think it's important for me to correct misunderstandings of atheism when I encounter it (at least, as I understand it). Sometimes that's on FaceBook, sometimes

Separation of church and state? Absolutely important. A TV crew was doing a 'man on the street' interview about having 'In God We Trust' on US coinage. I didn't make it on air.

 

[Artifis]

But this is where you are fundamentally in error:
Humans are not unique. We are a one spot along a continuum of collections of genes that happens to be on the planet for now. There is nothing at all unique about humans.

Yes, we're better than many other animals at some things, like Spoken Language, Novel Tool Manufacture, Mind Reading, etc. But there are vastly more things that humans *can't* do that other animals (and plants, fungi, bacteria, et alia) do all the time!

We can't echolocate;
can't see in infrared;
don't perceive ultraviolet;
don't can't communicate using chem-trails;
can't regrow limbs;
don't have an efficient division of labor;
can't stay awake all day [EDIT: night] long;
can't survive more than a few days without water;
don't have the ability to remember more than a handful of items at any one time;
and so on....

Why do you think Humans are unique? I'd guess it's because you are one.

We may not be able to do things that many other animal species on Earth can do, but we're certainly endowed with certain capabilities that for some reason has enabled us to triumph over/negate these limitations and go far beyond them.

Furthermore, is not the fact that we impact the planet so much more than any other creature proof of the uniqueness of the human being?

 

[Akka]

Do you belong to an Atheist social group? Do you feel that it's an Atheist's duty to promote a public understanding of Atheist?

These ideas feels really weird. Atheism is an opinion, not a mystery cult.

Do you believe in separation of church and state?

Sure, but then it's such a logical political concept that even many (most ?) believers think it's a good idea too, so...

 

[Leoreth]

Do you belong to an Atheist social group? Do you feel that it's an Atheist's duty to promote a public understanding of Atheist? Do you believe in separation of church and state?

Your first question seem to run on the assumption that Atheism is an ideology that organizes itself in an equivalent of churches or the like. My atheism manifests itself in an answer to the simple question "do you believe there is a god?", nothing more. You don't need social groups for that.

I don't think you have to promote atheism itself, but it's important to set aside misconceptions like "atheists hate God" or "atheism is just another kind of religion".

And in my opinion separation of church and state has nothing to do with your personal opinion about whether God exists. It should be a given in the modern understanding of how a sovereign democracy works.

 

[Linkman226]

We may not be able to do things that many other animal species on Earth can do, but we're certainly endowed with the environment has certainly favored the development of intelligence in this species of ape, allowing us certain capabilities that for some reason has enabled us to triumph over/negate these limitations and go far beyond them.

Furthermore, is not the fact that we impact the planet so much more than any other creature proof of the uniqueness of the human being?

As to your first point- 1) Endowed with implies a creator. I have fixed the problem for you . And your point can easily be reversed by saying non-human animals survive and thrive without as much intelligence by compensating with all their cool skills.

2) No. Within a mere 300 years of our disappearance off the face of the planet there'll be nothing to show that we even existed save some plastic bags.

Your first question seem to run on the assumption that Atheism is an ideology that organizes itself in an equivalent of churches or the like. My atheism manifests itself in an answer to the simple question "do you believe there is a god?", nothing more. You don't need social groups for that.

I don't think you have to promote atheism itself, but it's important to set aside misconceptions like "atheists hate God" or "atheism is just another kind of religion".

And in my opinion separation of church and state has nothing to do with your personal opinion about whether God exists. It should be a given in the modern understanding of how a sovereign democracy works.

Eh. Although I obviously don't go around proselytizing, I feel social groups are needed to promote understanding of us by the general population. Of course, you live in Germany, and I live in the US of all places . So its probably more important to fight together when you live in a country of evangelists.

 

[Artifis]

As to your first point- 1) Endowed with implies a creator. I have fixed the problem for you . And your point can easily be reversed by saying non-human animals survive and thrive without as much intelligence by compensating with all their cool skills.

2) No. Within a mere 300 years of our disappearance off the face of the planet there'll be nothing to show that we even existed save some plastic bags.

And I thought that I was being neutral enough by abhorring the instinctive "blessed". Heh. Regardless, we both mean the same thing.

Non-human animals may be able to survive and thrive despite their lack of human intelligence, but have they managed to impact the world on such a large scale? Within the short space of a century we managed to strike blow after blow against the Earth, to the extent that I fear greatly for our medium-term future. I see this as evidence for our uniqueness, if only in the worst possible sense.

Of course, something more positive could be the advancement of technology and computer. No other species on Earth has managed to accomplish similar tasks within such a short time span.

Whether or not there'll be nothing to show the existence of humans in 300 years is rather unnecessary to this discussion IMO. What we're trying to prove here is how unique we have been within the context of our existence on this planet. Why should our post-extinction legacy be the measure of our uniqueness?

 

[Linkman226]

I would say that mitochondria have influenced the direction of this planet FAR, FAR more than humankind. And their abillity to to exist symbiotically with the cell, producing energy for it, is quite the feat of nature. Certainly more unique.

 

[Artifis]

That's working within the context of nature and what mitochondria naturally do. Humanity has risen beyond the grunts and primal instinct and has accomplished far more.

In fact, pursuing this logic, mitochondria may have influenced the direction of the planet far more than humanity. But that's within the millions, if not billions, of years or so they had. Humanity? Give us a few thousand years and we change the fact of the planet.

 

[Linkman226]

That's working within the context of nature and what mitochondria naturally do. Humanity has risen beyond the grunts and primal instinct and has accomplished far more.

In fact, pursuing this logic, mitochondria may have influenced the direction of the planet far more than humanity. But that's within the millions, if not billions, of years or so they had. Humanity? Give us a few thousand years and we change the fact of the planet.

No, this is incredibly speciesist. We too are working within the context of nature, our context being invention and intelligence.

And I would disagree on your second point as well. I would bet that within a few thousand years of the first intercellular mitochondrion, the planet's life was revolutionized.

Lastly, I don't quite understand how our ability to quickly change the planet somehow makes us unique.

 

[peter grimes]

Lastly, I don't quite understand how our ability to quickly change the planet somehow makes us unique.

This goes to the heart of the matter. Just because one species out of millions is able to live in more habitats than any other single species doesn't, in itself, imply anything special about that species. It's very easy to find something unique about any given species, but that doesn't mean it has any value or worth. It just 'is'.

Also, I don't see how this affects the core idea behind my lack of belief in gods. No matter where one looks, there is no evidence that humans have been affected by anything 'super'-natural - we are the product of natural processes that have been going on for billions of years. Our migrations out of Africa, and our interactions with other Homos along the way, is well documented by physical anthropology and genetic analysis. Our impact on the globe, for better or worse, is likewise historically confirmed. Nothing about gods anywhere (except in cultural development, where there are also various other kinds of made-up creatures).

 

[Linkman226]

This goes to the heart of the matter. Just because one species out of millions is able to live in more habitats than any other single species doesn't, in itself, imply anything special about that species. It's very easy to find something unique about any given species, but that doesn't mean it has any value or worth. It just 'is'.

Also, I don't see how this affects the core idea behind my lack of belief in gods. No matter where one looks, there is no evidence that humans have been affected by anything 'super'-natural - we are the product of natural processes that have been going on for billions of years. Our migrations out of Africa, and our interactions with other Homos along the way, is well documented by physical anthropology and genetic analysis. Our impact on the globe, for better or worse, is likewise historically confirmed. Nothing about gods anywhere (except in cultural development, where there are also various other kinds of made-up creatures).

(for the most part)

The reason they are connected is that both religion and the speciest view this person is espousing come from a that arrogant idea that we are special or favored above all else.

From that same viewpoint of "I'm more special than thou" also comes racism, greed, selfishness, nationalism, and so on and so forth.

 

[Leoreth]

I think mankind is special. What people who make this argument often forget to mention is that other species are special as well, each in their own way (ugh, that sounds like the text of the final music number of some obnoxious Disney movie ).

Also, we only have the context of the planet we live on. We don't know how singular mankind's unqiue traits (on Earth) actually are in the universe.

Eh. Although I obviously don't go around proselytizing, I feel social groups are needed to promote understanding of us by the general population. Of course, you live in Germany, and I live in the US of all places . So its probably more important to fight together when you live in a country of evangelists.

Well, Germany is certainly not the country of areligious people it's often made out to be in the US

 

[Linkman226]

It can't be as bad as this

 

[Traitorfish]

It can't be as bad as this

My, isn't this a wonderful ad?