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PersianBoy said:
he is simbol of nationalism in iran
fundamentals don't like
but modernists espicially nationalists like he very much
he remembered as a person who nationalize oil resources and stand before king foe sake of poeple

Interesting, I guess the fundamentalists don't like him because of what he stood for?
I don't see why they would have a problem with him, could you explain why to me?

For those wondering who Mossadeq was, heres a brief background.

Mohammed Mossadeq was born on May 19, 1882, the son of a Qajar princess and an Iranian finance minister. His upbringing was one of privilege but belied his concern for justice and the common man. Educated in Paris and Switzerland, Mossadeq received a Ph.D. in law in 1913 and shortly after wrote the first of his many books, "How Iran Can Grow". When Dr. Mossadeq returned to Iran in 1914, he began a campaign against government waste and corruption. Various political involvements over the next few years saw him take the post of finance minister in 1922. He opposed the dictatorial rule of Shah Reza Khan and for that was arrested and released only to be placed under house arrest. Many years later, in 1941 in what can only be seen as a satisfying twist of fate, Mossadeq was able to return to public life with the abdication and exile of Reza Khan. He was then elected First Deputy from Tehran but failed at his bid for re-election to parliament because of voter fraud. It was this subsequent parliament which gave further oil concessions to Great Britain. Mossadeq was again elected to parliament after fraudulent ballots were disqualified. Throughout WW II, Mossadeq fought against foreign presence in Iran and was outspoken about matters of Iranian oil.

After World War II, Dr. Mossadeq headed up the Majlis (Iranian parliament) Oil Committee, which studied the oil agreements imposed on Iran by Great Britain during the last 45 years. On Nov. 25, 1950, the specific Supplemental Agreement was put to a vote and Mossadeq's influence resulted in a "no" vote. Mossadeq was now providing the backbone with which Iran would attempt to reclaim its self-destiny. On March 15, 1951, the Iranian parliament voted to nationalize Iran's oil industry and on May 6, parliament elected Mossadeq the Prime Minister of Iran.

Mossadeq was now at the height of his popularity. In his book, "Iran and the Capitulation Agreements", Mossadeq wrote that “Iran could develop modern, European-style legal and political systems if it took one vital step. It must impose the law equally on everyone, including foreigners, and never grant special privileges to anyone.” He was a world-renowned figure and champion of justice, democracy, and his nations' interests. His influence was so great that in 1951 Time Magazine chose him over Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and Winston Churchill as its Man of the Year. Taken in the context of the American viewpoint of the time and with America's soon-to-follow overthrow of the man, the article was not totally flattering, but remains a high watermark of Mossadeq's influence on world politics.

Now the legacy of Dr. Mossadeq turns from that of a champion fighting in the best interests of his country, to that of tragic figure. In 1953, the CIA and British intelligence toppled the government of Mossadeq in an organized coup d'etat (Operation TPAJAX) that installed Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, into power. With Britain at risk of losing its vested oil interests in Iran, they convinced American president Dwight Eisenhower to come onboard for a coup using the "Soviet threat" angle. America was soon in charge. There is little evidence to suggest that the Soviet Union had designs on Iran as they had withdrawn from Iran only a few years earlier. Former president Harry Truman saw no similar threat and had previously turned down the British request to oust Mossadeq over the oil issue or any issue -- but this was the era of the Rosenberg's and Joe McCarthy and Britain found a willing participant in Dwight Eisenhower for the ousting of Mossadeq. There is also little evidence to suggest that Mossadeq would in any way acquiesce to any Soviet interference. Indeed, that suggestion goes against everything known about Mossadeq to this day.

After the coup d'etat, Dr. Mossadeq was imprisoned for 3 years and following that placed under house arrest by the Shah until the day he died in 1967.
 
Azash said:
In our newspapers, we see Iranians who cheer wildly and want genocide, supporting an Iranian nuclear weapons program. How big a part of the population do these Iranians form?
they are fundamentalists
read about them in previous post about fundamentalism and fundametalists of iran
i can say that number of them in iran is about 5 to 10 percent
 
aneeshm said:
7) How do you feel towards other non-Muslims ? Specially the pagans like the Hindus ?


9)How do you view the Islamic revolution ? Was it constructive or destructive to Iran and Iranian identity ? Was it inclusive of non-Muslims or did it pass them by ?

be a little patient plz
I answer all questions one by one from first post and except some few posts I answered all in a row from start to end

7)I check in the dictionary for PAGANS and write below it non religious poeple IMO Hindus are not pagans by this meaning
they have religion like Shinto of Japan
I read a little about Hiduism and remember that they have three main Godness Shiva Godness of death (or killer), Berhama Godness of life (or saveir) and name of thrith I forgot but he was Godness of creating
if possible for you talk about hidus a little if you are Hindu

so non muslims is 2 part in Islam
1) who believe in God and maybe have a messenger from God previously and maybe poeple forgot teaching of that messenger or corrupt it
2) don't believe God
I don't know according Islam teaching how a muslim must treat them
if in past he or she believed in God and now don't believe in God, better find why he or she loose his or her faith

In Iran believe that Hindus pray cow but I think this idea is falce they pray simbole of a Godness apear in form of cow and poeple in past time, they have a messenger or maybe messengers
but through time poeple forgot real message
for example he may said don't annoy animals and poeple later convert this to praying animals
I'm not sure but guessing
glad to hear your openions

8) Islamic revolution is a step toward more leagal freedom and democrasi IMO
in path of previous revolution for limiting Kings right
maybe you say that before Islamic revolution freedom is more in drinking alcohl and other things like that
but never a president can elected by poeple and kings do whatever they want situation like Saudi Arabia or Qatar or UAE (SE for before revolution in Ghajar time, Qatar for previous nationalist revolution, Mossadeq and others and UAE if islamic revolution don't occur)
islamic aspects is a reaction to non islamic and even anti islamic actions of Secound Pahlavi's time and most of poeple accepted it in some years after revolution
some few miniority may don't wanna and don't accept Islamic traditions and rule but most poeple and majority accept it

maybe another revolution and even revolutions:lol: needed for better life in Iran but every revolution is a movement forward better life and freedom

better accept that after islamic golden age in 7 and 8th century Islam became a factor in Iran identity
I think it is constructive
I think rules of miniorities can not suitable for majorities and majority of Iran is Shi'a muslims
in Shi'a Islam right of each religious miniority defined
I think describe it before
if not enough ask me for more information

Rambuchan is a Parsi and asked before questions like you asked by any chance are you Parsi too?
 
Rambuchan said:
PersianBoy: Hello again my friend. :)

I am sorry that I have not checked into this thread lately. Maybe I will pick up on our previous discussion later, but for now, I wanted to share some other Persian treasures with you, aside from the poetry we mentioned. If you love the old Persian poets, then I am sure you love the art from their poetry too!

This comes with thanks for the verse you shared with me earlier and is taken from that excellent book we both love:

The Shahnameh








so glad that see you again
can you read persian
cho beshnid rostam
whoo you can't understan what this poem made such feeling in me
a sence of braveness and might
by reading them I feel I can answer Hezar Hezar (in persian means 1000 1000) questions
thank you for it
 
TheDervish said:
Question, PersianBoy:

Everyone I met in Iran had satillite TV.

Is Turkish based channel CNBC-e easily available?

but I have not satillite TV
I agree many of poeple have Satillite TV in Iran
every one can buy a satillite TV by spending about 200 us$
but maybe you know that it is illigal
but a common illigal everybody break law

mainly turkish and arabian TV recieved in Iran from hotberd
by equipment I mention above arab sat and turk sat can easiely recieved
but if you near turkey turk sat and turkish tv is better and if you in near of arabian countries in south (don't know about Iraq, poeple before don't like Iraq because of Saddam Hossien and now I don't know) recive arabian TVs better
I like internet more than Satillite TV because for recieving English TV need about 500 US$ and yet I have not such a money and I don't like Arab and Turk TVs although have some knowledge in them
 
William GBTW said:
PersianBoy what I meant was:
Can a non-Arab or other traditionally Muslim ethnic group person become a follower of Islam? For ex. Pretend that George was 100% English & he wanted to become a follower of Islam (Muslim) could he do so?
Also does Iran want to rebuild the Persian Empire?
every race and ethnic group wellcomed in Islam and have equal rihgts with other muslims (Shi'a openion)
converting to islam no need to any thing except saying Ashhadain (say only Allah is God not others and Muhammad is messenger of Allah)
then you must learn islamic concept and have logical knowdge of why God exist and why it is unic and why he send for men messengers
then understand why men must pray God and then learn how pray god and other religious acts
contributing in common pray in a mousqe or other religious places means that you declare that you are muslim (non-muslims prevented to intering mousqes and religious places)
all need is this
commonly say that if you say Ashhadin you become muslim but must know about Islam something

I don't know exact process but like what I said
 
PersianBoy: For your info, I am not Parsi and I do not speak Persian. My ancestors of many hundreds of years ago were, but the culture and faith died out ages ago, in favour of other cultural influences and due to intermarriage. Don't blame me brother, blame the Hindus and then Portuguese!

You are doing a great job here. Keep up the good work.
 
Mott1 said:
Hi persianboy,
You have stated that everyone is equal in Islam. How do you view the people outside of Islam, are they equal as well? Do you belive that people who do not belong to the umma should have second class status in dar al-Islam Iran?

Muhammad said that he is brother with Jesus and Muses and other prophets
so fellowers of these prophets are brothers
but muslim believe teaching of Jesus and Muses had currepted
every man have his right in islam (also every weman) a muslim have Islamic right and a christiana have christian right and also for others
everyman can have a place for praying and doing according to its religion
they have not same rigid and similar rights, they have equal rights
I don't know how describe it for you
men and weman in Islamic aspects are the same, needings and feelings of a girl differ with a boy
islam have equal right to the needings and feelings of every man
I mean wemen need some thing else then men need and so according to the needing, rights differ
so for muslims and non muslims
if give equal right to muslims and non-muslims does not mean justice
christians needs differ with needs of a muslim so each of them have espicial right but in overall is equal
I wish you could understand me
 
boarder said:
Interesting, I guess the fundamentalists don't like him because of what he stood for?
I don't see why they would have a problem with him, could you explain why to me?

For those wondering who Mossadeq was, heres a brief background.

Mohammed Mossadeq was born on May 19, 1882, the son of a Qajar princess and an Iranian finance minister. His upbringing was one of privilege but belied his concern for justice and the common man. Educated in Paris and Switzerland, Mossadeq received a Ph.D. in law in 1913 and shortly after wrote the first of his many books, "How Iran Can Grow". When Dr. Mossadeq returned to Iran in 1914, he began a campaign against government waste and corruption. Various political involvements over the next few years saw him take the post of finance minister in 1922. He opposed the dictatorial rule of Shah Reza Khan and for that was arrested and released only to be placed under house arrest. Many years later, in 1941 in what can only be seen as a satisfying twist of fate, Mossadeq was able to return to public life with the abdication and exile of Reza Khan. He was then elected First Deputy from Tehran but failed at his bid for re-election to parliament because of voter fraud. It was this subsequent parliament which gave further oil concessions to Great Britain. Mossadeq was again elected to parliament after fraudulent ballots were disqualified. Throughout WW II, Mossadeq fought against foreign presence in Iran and was outspoken about matters of Iranian oil.

After World War II, Dr. Mossadeq headed up the Majlis (Iranian parliament) Oil Committee, which studied the oil agreements imposed on Iran by Great Britain during the last 45 years. On Nov. 25, 1950, the specific Supplemental Agreement was put to a vote and Mossadeq's influence resulted in a "no" vote. Mossadeq was now providing the backbone with which Iran would attempt to reclaim its self-destiny. On March 15, 1951, the Iranian parliament voted to nationalize Iran's oil industry and on May 6, parliament elected Mossadeq the Prime Minister of Iran.

Mossadeq was now at the height of his popularity. In his book, "Iran and the Capitulation Agreements", Mossadeq wrote that “Iran could develop modern, European-style legal and political systems if it took one vital step. It must impose the law equally on everyone, including foreigners, and never grant special privileges to anyone.” He was a world-renowned figure and champion of justice, democracy, and his nations' interests. His influence was so great that in 1951 Time Magazine chose him over Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and Winston Churchill as its Man of the Year. Taken in the context of the American viewpoint of the time and with America's soon-to-follow overthrow of the man, the article was not totally flattering, but remains a high watermark of Mossadeq's influence on world politics.

Now the legacy of Dr. Mossadeq turns from that of a champion fighting in the best interests of his country, to that of tragic figure. In 1953, the CIA and British intelligence toppled the government of Mossadeq in an organized coup d'etat (Operation TPAJAX) that installed Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, into power. With Britain at risk of losing its vested oil interests in Iran, they convinced American president Dwight Eisenhower to come onboard for a coup using the "Soviet threat" angle. America was soon in charge. There is little evidence to suggest that the Soviet Union had designs on Iran as they had withdrawn from Iran only a few years earlier. Former president Harry Truman saw no similar threat and had previously turned down the British request to oust Mossadeq over the oil issue or any issue -- but this was the era of the Rosenberg's and Joe McCarthy and Britain found a willing participant in Dwight Eisenhower for the ousting of Mossadeq. There is also little evidence to suggest that Mossadeq would in any way acquiesce to any Soviet interference. Indeed, that suggestion goes against everything known about Mossadeq to this day.

After the coup d'etat, Dr. Mossadeq was imprisoned for 3 years and following that placed under house arrest by the Shah until the day he died in 1967.

because others say that he was not in pro of Islam
maybe he really in pro of Islam but today it is wellknown that he was not in pro of Islam not means anti-islam
maybe he like western method more than Islamic method for life and then this cause his name in non pro of Islam
but he is a national hero and in history that all youth must study in school his name is said but with his defeat and return of Shah
this situation created maybe because of his defeat (Iranian think his weakness in desions caused defeat and if he decide better and call poeple for help and countrvene that revolution never gain a defeat)
 
Rambuchan said:
PersianBoy: For your info, I am not Parsi and I do not speak Persian. My ancestors of many hundreds of years ago were, but the culture and faith died out ages ago, in favour of other cultural influences and due to intermarriage. Don't blame me brother, blame the Hindus and then Portuguese!

You are doing a great job here. Keep up the good work.

oh so bad
but you are a very nice guy
thank you
so may you can describe some from hindus
 
here I want to explian my openion about Israel problem in Middle East
I think Isrealies are today inhabitants of this region and so any claim to they must leave this region cause more confilct in ME
so IMO country of palestine or whatever you call must enlarge to be enough land for living all of the inhabitants and Palestinain refugee that spread in many muslim countries
so a mixed country must born maybe Jordan or Syria or Lebonan and even Saudi Arabia loose some part of thier land for this new country and even think of merging countries like Jordan, Palestine or lebonan and building a union from poeple that never befor sign a unionship
all jews and muslims must live in all cities then nobody can bolow up any where because then trrorists kill thier poeple
power must distributed according to the number of poeple for example:
president must be a Sunni arab and preminister a jews or maybe if some poeple be Shi'a muslims one or some ministers be from Shi'a's
international organizations must have an wide eye on this country for a very long time to prevent problems
this international organization could be UN and a group of Jews, Christian and Muslims must manage holy and religious places and prevent fundamentalism annoy others (fundamentalism mean here Jewis, Chritian and muslim fundamentalism)
Bitolmoghaddas or Urshalim and its nighbours are under the control of multi-religious organ and even poeples from other religions could come this region to talk about religion but administrators must be three, one from Jews, one from Christians and one from Muslims and without satisfaction of three and all of them no projects could implemented

all Jews, christians and muslims may oppose by this recommendation
but IMo this is very fast and suitable solution for this problem

what's your openion?
 
PersianBoy said:
be a little patient plz
I answer all questions one by one from first post and except some few posts I answered all in a row from start to end

7)I check in the dictionary for PAGANS and write below it non religious poeple IMO Hindus are not pagans by this meaning
they have religion like Shinto of Japan
I read a little about Hiduism and remember that they have three main Godness Shiva Godness of death (or killer), Berhama Godness of life (or saveir) and name of thrith I forgot but he was Godness of creating
if possible for you talk about hidus a little if you are Hindu

I'll be happy to explain further about Hinduism .

Hinduism went through two stages before assuming its current form . It first went through a polytheistic stage , where people believed that there were many Gods , but seers found this unsatisfactory . Then it went through a monotheist stage , where there was one God and only one manifestation of God , but seers found that also unsatisfactory . Right now it is going through a pantheistic stage , where it says that there is only one God , but that that God manifests and expresses himself in many ways - in as many ways , in fact , as devotees choose to worship him . Where it will go after this is anybody's guess - only God knows for sure .

Let me also elaborate about the different aspects God takes . There are three primary forms of God :

Brahma : The creative . He is responsible for the creation of the universe . Below we have a photo of him .
brahma.jpg




Vishnu : Caretaker of the universe . He is responsible for maintaining order in the universe , and upholding Dharma ( righteousness ) , as given in my signature . Below is a photo of Vishnu when he took the form of Krishna .
Radha%20Krishna.JPG




Shiva : The destructive . He is responsible for destroying adharma ( unrighteousness and wickedness ) when it occurs , and for destroying the universe itself when its time is up . Given below is a photo of Shiva in his Nataraj ( Lord of the Dance ) form , which links to a site which explains the symbolism of the Nataraj pose :



Note , however , that all these three are aspects of one God , not separate Gods by themselves .

PersianBoy said:
so non muslims is 2 part in Islam
1) who believe in God and maybe have a messenger from God previously and maybe poeple forgot teaching of that messenger or corrupt it

So you think that Hindus come under this category ? Does this mean that the thousands of years of Indian research in linguistics , which has kept us ahead of the world till today and even now , which was all done for the preservation of the Vedas as they are , without any alteration , is all useless ?

PersianBoy said:
2) don't believe God
I don't know according Islam teaching how a muslim must treat them
if in past he or she believed in God and now don't believe in God, better find why he or she loose his or her faith

OK .

PersianBoy said:
In Iran believe that Hindus pray cow but I think this idea is falce they pray simbole of a Godness apear in form of cow and poeple in past time, they have a messenger or maybe messengers
but through time poeple forgot real message
for example he may said don't annoy animals and poeple later convert this to praying animals
I'm not sure but guessing
glad to hear your openions

The reason for giving religious importance and sanctity to the cow is very simple .

In the older days , and even today in some areas , farmers and villagers are dependent on the cow for a lot of their needs . They need the cow for food ( in the form of milk ) , for fertiliser ( dung ) , and for labour ( ploughing , done by bulls ) . If farmers ate their cows and cattle during famine , then they would be left without any means of sustenance when normalcy returned . The easiest way to make sure that the cow was protected was to give it religious protection . That is why the cow is sacred and cannot be killed in Hinduism .

The other reason is that killing even animals is not good for a man , it makes him violent . Eating the meat of an animal has the same effect . For that reason , Hinduism recommends that people try to be vegetarian .

PersianBoy said:
8) Islamic revolution is a step toward more leagal freedom and democrasi IMO
in path of previous revolution for limiting Kings right
maybe you say that before Islamic revolution freedom is more in drinking alcohl and other things like that
but never a president can elected by poeple and kings do whatever they want situation like Saudi Arabia or Qatar or UAE (SE for before revolution in Ghajar time, Qatar for previous nationalist revolution, Mossadeq and others and UAE if islamic revolution don't occur)
islamic aspects is a reaction to non islamic and even anti islamic actions of Secound Pahlavi's time and most of poeple accepted it in some years after revolution

OK .

PersianBoy said:
some few miniority may don't wanna and don't accept Islamic traditions and rule but most poeple and majority accept it

Does Iran impose Muslim law on non-Muslims also ? For example , is a non-Muslim allowed to drink ? Is he allowed to eat pork ? Is he allowed to eat anything during the month of Ramadan ? If not , then do you not think that it is an infringement of his right to freedom of religion ? Or do you think that , living in an Islamic state , they must follow Islamic law irrespective of their religion ?

PersianBoy said:
better accept that after islamic golden age in 7 and 8th century Islam became a factor in Iran identity
I think it is constructive
I think rules of miniorities can not suitable for majorities and majority of Iran is Shi'a muslims
in Shi'a Islam right of each religious miniority defined
I think describe it before
if not enough ask me for more information

So you think that the Islamic golden age defined Iranian identity more than the pre-Islamic golden age ? Or that the two are related , one being merely the logical progression from another ?

PersianBoy said:
Rambuchan is a Parsi and asked before questions like you asked by any chance are you Parsi too?

I am myself not a Parsi , but I come from the same group of Aryan religions and races . The Hindu and the Parsee religions share ( or rather , shared ) a common cultural and racial base . Let me try an experiment . Try to guess where this sculpture comes from ( and don't cheat by looking at the link's address ;) ) :

ivl4_priest-king005.jpg







































































If you guessed ancient Iran or Persia , the you'd be dead wrong . It comes from the Indus valley civilisation , which was the first known Indian city civilisation . They built vast , gigantic cities on the banks of the river Saraswati . When the river dried up , the people of that civilisation migrated to other parts of India . These people were , according to me , the Aryans , of which race both the Indians and Iranians are . The ancient Hindus called their land Aryavarta ( आर्यवर्त ) , which means "Land of the Aryans" , which means "Land of the Noble" , because the word Arya in Sanskrit means "Noble" . The name Iran , which you like better than Persia , is a corruption of the word Aryanam . Here is the history of the name : Naming of Iran .

The difference between the two Aryan countries - India and Iran - is that in India , both the Aryan culture and religion are alive , whereas in Iran , only the Aryan culture is alive , the Aryan religion having been replaced by Islam . Whether this replacement is positive or negative only time will tell .
 
And another question : I want your opinion on a peice of Hindi music . You can download the song in question here . Tell me how you like . How heavily do you think its Hindi is influenced by Persian words and styles of music ?
 
PersianBoy said:
are you iranian
every thing of you is persian your simbol your sign your name and others
then help me in answering questions



IN PERSIAN:
MA ZE YARAN CHESHM YARI DASHTIM

"we expected friendship/companionship from friends/companions." nice line! is it from shahnameh?
 
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