Zack
99% hot gas
Or choxorn.
Aspiring Rapper's MAFIA- Game Thread
- Thread starter Askthepizzaguy
- Start date
Askthepizzaguy
Know the Dark Side
Note: I use wolf/mafia interchangeably. Been on too many websites I suppose.
I've also found that mafia opt to take the path of not being on the lynch wagon that lynches a townie more often than not, because then they can not look as bad, and have several scapegoats.
Meanwhile they will be voting for a different townie a lot, or their own partner, but with less chance of that lynch actually succeeding.
It can be a mafia lynching townies over and over, or it could be several townies who are simply uninformed and clicking buttons. It's not a reliable tell generically.
Specifically, the reasons why villagers vote for villagers and the reasons why mafia do might be a tell.
Villagers tend to believe their lynchee is a wolf strongly, or believe they can be a wolf and that they're wolfier than the alternative wagons.
Wolves on the other hand tend find really defensible, yet generic reasons to lynch villagers. And they usually lack conviction, or the conviction doesn't develop naturally. And they will also tend to randomly suggest that their suspects might be villagers, whenever it is safe to do so, so they can point at that later on and go see, I figured it out in time.
Their objective is to look more correct than villagers, but also nudge the village in the direction of lynching more villagers so that they have more scapegoats.
Reason why is because they want villagers they can lynch, but they also don't want to look "too townie" by looking primarily responsible for too many wolves dying too early, and then people are forced to wonder, how come that player never got murdered by the wolves?
Once the doctors are dead, it's very questionable to have lynched a wolf extremely early, or several wolves, look better than almost every villager, and still not die. It puts village in a position of strength, since wolves are dead, and allows them the time and the votes to lynch someone who was too correct and too townie to be a townie.
So the best spot to aim for is that sweet spot of not looking as bad as certain villagers, but also not being correct enough to be a more or less forced murder, where continued survival looks conspicuous.
Possibility of a live doctor mitigates that, and allows mafia to be "too townie" and still survive a game, so there are exceptions to everything. I got away with that in Ciretako, and then I deliberately didn't murder to make the doctor think he was succeeding.
That all being said, usually the "worst" players in the village are villagers, and the ones that look better are wolves who use their superior inside knowledge to make villagers look scummier than themselves. This is especially the case when villagers are lynched a lot in a certain game. Otherwise wolves have been under pressure and are more likely to be late to the conclusion their partner is a wolf.
Some players will play outside that generality, and you have to develop a sense for when a wolf is playing outside of it.
Some wolves are very comfortable being openly aggressive, very wrong, and very scummy, finding refuge in audacity, because they can pull it off. (Zack)
Other wolves are more comfortable voting for their partners to look like a paragon all game, and damn the consequences for doing so, and it still works. (Zander on Dragonmount, me sometimes)
I've also found that mafia opt to take the path of not being on the lynch wagon that lynches a townie more often than not, because then they can not look as bad, and have several scapegoats.
Meanwhile they will be voting for a different townie a lot, or their own partner, but with less chance of that lynch actually succeeding.
It can be a mafia lynching townies over and over, or it could be several townies who are simply uninformed and clicking buttons. It's not a reliable tell generically.
Specifically, the reasons why villagers vote for villagers and the reasons why mafia do might be a tell.
Villagers tend to believe their lynchee is a wolf strongly, or believe they can be a wolf and that they're wolfier than the alternative wagons.
Wolves on the other hand tend find really defensible, yet generic reasons to lynch villagers. And they usually lack conviction, or the conviction doesn't develop naturally. And they will also tend to randomly suggest that their suspects might be villagers, whenever it is safe to do so, so they can point at that later on and go see, I figured it out in time.
Their objective is to look more correct than villagers, but also nudge the village in the direction of lynching more villagers so that they have more scapegoats.
Reason why is because they want villagers they can lynch, but they also don't want to look "too townie" by looking primarily responsible for too many wolves dying too early, and then people are forced to wonder, how come that player never got murdered by the wolves?
Once the doctors are dead, it's very questionable to have lynched a wolf extremely early, or several wolves, look better than almost every villager, and still not die. It puts village in a position of strength, since wolves are dead, and allows them the time and the votes to lynch someone who was too correct and too townie to be a townie.
So the best spot to aim for is that sweet spot of not looking as bad as certain villagers, but also not being correct enough to be a more or less forced murder, where continued survival looks conspicuous.
Possibility of a live doctor mitigates that, and allows mafia to be "too townie" and still survive a game, so there are exceptions to everything. I got away with that in Ciretako, and then I deliberately didn't murder to make the doctor think he was succeeding.
That all being said, usually the "worst" players in the village are villagers, and the ones that look better are wolves who use their superior inside knowledge to make villagers look scummier than themselves. This is especially the case when villagers are lynched a lot in a certain game. Otherwise wolves have been under pressure and are more likely to be late to the conclusion their partner is a wolf.
Some players will play outside that generality, and you have to develop a sense for when a wolf is playing outside of it.
Some wolves are very comfortable being openly aggressive, very wrong, and very scummy, finding refuge in audacity, because they can pull it off. (Zack)
Other wolves are more comfortable voting for their partners to look like a paragon all game, and damn the consequences for doing so, and it still works. (Zander on Dragonmount, me sometimes)
Zack
99% hot gas
Also because I have enough failures under my belt as town that it's totally plausible.
I guess this means I can also add "can't read" to my list of achievements this game.
It's also always easier to find a mafia's scumtells when you already know that they're a mafia. I can always look back through a completed game and play a game of hitting myself over the head with "how did I not notice that as scummy/how did I not notice this townie wasn't actually all that scummy," and I also, as mafia, tend to notice my scumbuddies' scumminess a lot more often.
I respond with what these guys said:
A quick look back at the votes reveals that while Zack was on literally every successful lynch wagon except Backwards' on day 7, plenty of others were right behind him- Of the people Cuth and Zack mentioned, I was on 4 wagons (Arakhor, Visor, Lassie, and Al, and I would have voted Backwards day 8 if I'd been awake for any part of it), Glossy was on 3 (out of 6 days where she was alive and could vote- specifically, she voted for Visor, Lassie, and Cass), Cuth was on 5 (Visor, Mat, Al, Cass, and Backwards, and that's not counting his vote for Lassie on Day 4 that was actually one after the hammer). Cass actually wasn't on any successful wagon- she twice voted me and twice voted Legato, voted Zack on the day she was lynched and didn't get in a vote before the hammer when Lassie was lynched.
Among others these two didn't mention, there's also Murska, who voted 5 townies on the day they were lynched (Arakhor, Visor, Lassie, Al, Backwards), and edse, who voted 4 (Mat, Lassie, Cass, Glossy)
Legato Endless
Prince
We need less theory crafting and more challenge initiated.
Duff threw a gauntlet.
I want to see his skills in Arakhor's game and what comes after should he not rand mafia.
If he is a gifted hunter, then further participation around here would be grand.
Duff threw a gauntlet.
I want to see his skills in Arakhor's game and what comes after should he not rand mafia.
If he is a gifted hunter, then further participation around here would be grand.
Zack
99% hot gas
not intentional, it just kind of happened. visor being dead meant people actually listened to me
Askthepizzaguy
Know the Dark Side
If he is not a gifted hunter, then further participation around here would also be grand.
It's a button clicking guessing game, skills not required to play and not readily obvious even if your team wins and not always absent when your team doesn't.
He looked obvious scum to me as well, but we weren't his audience. Scum don't have to fool the world into thinking them town, they just have to trick enough townies into voting for someone else. The way Zack and Legato worked the crowd here, it's safest to assume they would have played you or me just as hard.
Askthepizzaguy
Know the Dark Side
I did poll most of the people who died this game, and before giving them the dead thread, asked them to name the scums, because I was confident we'd need to see who actually knew who the scums were.
In each case, I think the maximum number of scums given was 2 out of the possible 4, and enough villagers were given that it wouldn't have then been a progression to find the remaining scums. It would have been mislynch after mislynch and it still would have been a town loss, just not a sweep, if each individual townie got their way.
It would have certainly been a team effort, because the townies that missed the remaining scums would have needed to die, and then the townies that didn't miss the other scums would have needed to live.
And of course, people's reads change. It's possible that even if you'd have gotten one of the scums with your initial guess, seeing your top scum read die and be a villager might (as naturally happens) cause you to rethink your whole list and drop the real scums from your scum list, as happened to the live villagers often enough. Oh they're scum, whoops, I guess I was wrong, they're townie.
No one player was a superstar who if they got their way guessed the whole scum team. So even if you nabbed one, it's possible you die or drive the lynches of more townies. It would have been difficult to get three scums down this game based on people's reads having so many townies as scum.
In each case, I think the maximum number of scums given was 2 out of the possible 4, and enough villagers were given that it wouldn't have then been a progression to find the remaining scums. It would have been mislynch after mislynch and it still would have been a town loss, just not a sweep, if each individual townie got their way.
It would have certainly been a team effort, because the townies that missed the remaining scums would have needed to die, and then the townies that didn't miss the other scums would have needed to live.
And of course, people's reads change. It's possible that even if you'd have gotten one of the scums with your initial guess, seeing your top scum read die and be a villager might (as naturally happens) cause you to rethink your whole list and drop the real scums from your scum list, as happened to the live villagers often enough. Oh they're scum, whoops, I guess I was wrong, they're townie.
No one player was a superstar who if they got their way guessed the whole scum team. So even if you nabbed one, it's possible you die or drive the lynches of more townies. It would have been difficult to get three scums down this game based on people's reads having so many townies as scum.
Zack
99% hot gas
What made it obvious to you? Similarity to the mafia champions game?
Exactly that. Your D1 tone in particular was very similar.
But the fact that you immediately guessed my reason illustrates quite nicely my point to Duff about working the crowd.
Zack
99% hot gas
To be fair, there's no comparable game to those two where I am town. In the huge sample size of 2 hyper-active vanilla-ish games I've played in, I was scum both times. And both were sweeps.
edit: you could throw Toy Story (from gitp) in there, in which I was town, but that game died fairly quickly so I don't know how valid a comparison it is.
Legato Endless
Prince
That's pretty impressive depending on how early you starting polling.
