creamcheese
Spreading since 1990
It might be better to actually showcase some of these to newer players, and explain why some people don't use them/consider them exploitative.
Asterix the Gaul -- Or: How to get the biggest bang out of the Gallic Swordsman
- Thread starter Lanzelot
- Start date
It might be better to actually showcase some of these to newer players, and explain why some people don't use them/consider them exploitative.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
so to show the alternative, i continued what i would call "Lanzelot´s enhanced approach", and Paperbeetle already showed the power of the other option.
here the settler for the 2nd town is now in position already where i would found for a perfect worker factory. after the current warrior build [edit: or probably rather a 3rd worker before that, i will think about that] the cap is ready as a 4-turner, and using all the powerful river tiles.
templar_x
here the settler for the 2nd town is now in position already where i would found for a perfect worker factory. after the current warrior build [edit: or probably rather a 3rd worker before that, i will think about that] the cap is ready as a 4-turner, and using all the powerful river tiles.
templar_x
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splunge the 2nd
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Just to make sure I'm on the right page, Lanz, you're preparing critiques of the submitted second turnset and then it's on to set 3?
creamcheese:
I like your awareness for MM. E.g. in turns 0 and 2, where you changed tile assignments in order to gain an extra coin, some extra food, etc. Keep it up, this is what it takes to become a MM guru in the early phase...
You finished your first settler in 2590BC, just like in PaperBeetle's, templar's and my game, so you should have quite a strong start. And because you have a warrior in that area, you are able to found the second town by the cow, something that neither of us was able to do.
A tip for improvement might be the following: I see that your worker is currently mining a river grassland, while both river plains are still unimproved. If you irrigate a plain, you'll have an identical tile (2/1/2) as a mined grassland, but you'll have it 2 turns faster! (7 turns for roading/irrigating the plain, instead of 9 turns for roading & mining the grass.) Due to this it will take you longer to get the 4-turner operational.
Also, due to having only one warrior on MP duty, you have only 8gpt. This could be 10gpt as in my game. It will be interesting to see, whether the early cow town will be able to compensate that until Republic.
You already raised the question of who should be the first target for military operations:
The current situation looks as follows:
The first target should be the Romans. Perhaps we can beat them, before they have been able to connect any iron, and that would make our task much much easier. At least we should be able to engage them, before they have built too many Legions and pillage their iron early in the war. The other reason for choosing Rome as first target is: once the first wave of our army has finished Rome, it can proceed south and continue to conquer China, while the second wave that will then be built in our core can march north and take on America. From a logistics point of view, this will save a lot of time - units don't need to march back and forth from the topmost north all the way south or vice versa.
Of course this plan may need adjustment, for example if we get sneak attacked by one of our neighbors we may need to change plans, or if more information about the AI's land gives good reasons for making a different plan (e.g urgently needed resources (luxuries, iron) that we want to get).
Another -completely different- plan might be to declare war on China first, bribe Rome to join us and then attack America, while Rome and China are weakening each other...
After America is finished, turn back south and pick up the remaining pieces of Rome/China.
On higher levels, where the AI can put up quite a fight in the AA, a plan like this might be advisable, but I think on Emperor the straight-forward plan should be faster.
Aabraxan:
The big pluses of your game are the early contact with China (already got their gold and some techs), the early second town and you already have a curragh in the water, so you can hope for very early overseas contacts, getting more trade opportunities and a pretty good picture of the world (will come handy when it's time to plan the first invasions...).
However, this comes at a certain price: the granary is not yet ready, so your REX phase will now be slower than that of the other ones, and for my taste Alesia is a bit too far from the capital. The question of this game will be, whether the curragh and the early second town can compensate for these two disadvantages.
A tip on MM:
Glasnost:
Ok, here I need to criticize mainly two things:
Another thing that is slowing down your research progress is the fact that your cities are too small (and don't have military police yet, once they grow). Probably a consequence of your early war with America and the blocking of the choke point?! In general I would say, you succeeded in crippling America, but the war damaged your game as well. If you finally get the two captured workers back home, they may repair some of the damage in the long run.
splunge the 2nd:
Ok, you continued from my save, and are now in a quite similar position as I am. There is one major difference, however: you did not chop the forest into the first settler. The consequences of this are twofold: first your settler came one turn later (2550BC instead of 2590BC), and you had to work the two forest tiles extensively in order to get the necessary shields, while I was able to work the gold hill here and there for some extra gold. Also you are improving the grassland tile instead of the second plains tile, which takes longer. Both factors result in a slightly slower research: you still have 8 turns left on Writing compared to my 4 turns.
Looks like you are also going for a coastal town first, instead of the very close settlement pattern that I will try. As in Aabraxan's game this should be a very interesting variant to compare, because maritime exploration will be an important point in this game. However, as templar already pointed out, the location at E-SE can be turned into a 2-turn worker factory, which will also be extremely powerful!
Comment on the turnlog: apparently you played 11 turns instead of 10 and then saved at the beginning of the 12th turn (2470BC)... The actions of "Turn 9 2590" seem to be missing in the log, while the turn that you list under that heading should actually be "Turn 10 2550", and the final turn should read "Turn 11 2510".
Finally some comments on PaperBeetle's and templar's examples. I'm not going to make a review of these, because who am I to critize our two of the best MM gurus and long time GOTM champions...? These are perfect examples of how to play this start. Just some explanations for our students.
The first thing you'll notice, is that templar left the two irrigated river plains without a road. Well, I just told you this is bad, didn't I... But in this case it is justified, because it was the only way to get enough food and shields to have the 4-turner operational already at this point. The slight drawback is that in the following turns some worker turns will be lost when putting that missing road on these tiles. But in my approach I still need quite a while to get my 4-turner operational, and I expect that the faster settlers in templar's (and similarly in PaperBeetle's) approach will compensate for that.
Another point that was caused by the bee-line for the 4-turner: there's no military police yet, also resulting in less commerce. This is something that PaperBeetle also mentioned already: from the three starts, mine is the one with the highest commerce, having currently 4 turns left on Writing, compared to PaperBeetle's 9 and templar's 20 turns. The interesting question of this comparison will be, by how much the other two will have caught up in the course of the remaining two techs. Will they reach Republic at the same time or even before me? No idea at the moment. But in any case, we can see here that the different approaches amount to some kind of "trade-off": a bit more security and higher initial commerce traded for more food and faster expansion.
I like your awareness for MM. E.g. in turns 0 and 2, where you changed tile assignments in order to gain an extra coin, some extra food, etc. Keep it up, this is what it takes to become a MM guru in the early phase...
You finished your first settler in 2590BC, just like in PaperBeetle's, templar's and my game, so you should have quite a strong start. And because you have a warrior in that area, you are able to found the second town by the cow, something that neither of us was able to do.
A tip for improvement might be the following: I see that your worker is currently mining a river grassland, while both river plains are still unimproved. If you irrigate a plain, you'll have an identical tile (2/1/2) as a mined grassland, but you'll have it 2 turns faster! (7 turns for roading/irrigating the plain, instead of 9 turns for roading & mining the grass.) Due to this it will take you longer to get the 4-turner operational.
Also, due to having only one warrior on MP duty, you have only 8gpt. This could be 10gpt as in my game. It will be interesting to see, whether the early cow town will be able to compensate that until Republic.
You already raised the question of who should be the first target for military operations:
I was going to raise this question after turnset 3, when everybody has done about the same amount of scouting and can see the outline of our continent, but well, let's just assume we all have already the same knowledge as Aabraxan and Glasnost, and discuss it now...
The current situation looks as follows:
- In the north we have the Americans, which appear not too strong. Probably have bad land or not much of land.
- In the south we have Rome. They have very good land (I have already seen a cow, a sugar, many BGs and some floodplains) and also they'll be a real nuisance, if they manage to hook up iron.
- South of the Romans we have the Chinese, don't know much about them yet.
The first target should be the Romans. Perhaps we can beat them, before they have been able to connect any iron, and that would make our task much much easier. At least we should be able to engage them, before they have built too many Legions and pillage their iron early in the war. The other reason for choosing Rome as first target is: once the first wave of our army has finished Rome, it can proceed south and continue to conquer China, while the second wave that will then be built in our core can march north and take on America. From a logistics point of view, this will save a lot of time - units don't need to march back and forth from the topmost north all the way south or vice versa.
Of course this plan may need adjustment, for example if we get sneak attacked by one of our neighbors we may need to change plans, or if more information about the AI's land gives good reasons for making a different plan (e.g urgently needed resources (luxuries, iron) that we want to get).
Another -completely different- plan might be to declare war on China first, bribe Rome to join us and then attack America, while Rome and China are weakening each other...
After America is finished, turn back south and pick up the remaining pieces of Rome/China.On higher levels, where the AI can put up quite a fight in the AA, a plan like this might be advisable, but I think on Emperor the straight-forward plan should be faster.
Aabraxan:
The big pluses of your game are the early contact with China (already got their gold and some techs), the early second town and you already have a curragh in the water, so you can hope for very early overseas contacts, getting more trade opportunities and a pretty good picture of the world (will come handy when it's time to plan the first invasions...).
However, this comes at a certain price: the granary is not yet ready, so your REX phase will now be slower than that of the other ones, and for my taste Alesia is a bit too far from the capital. The question of this game will be, whether the curragh and the early second town can compensate for these two disadvantages.
A tip on MM:
You could have set the citizen on the fish (collecting two coins) and then you would still have gotten the shield during that interturn, when Alesia picks up the river BG during growth. This would have gained one gold. (The two gold from picking the fish on growth are lost, because commerce is calculated before food/growth.)
Well, actually you only need 6 spt for a 4-turner!
Glasnost:
Ok, here I need to criticize mainly two things:
- Entremont has a barracks already, but you didn't build a single veteran unit yet?! Instead, Entremont is building a settler now. So what did you build the barracks for? It's only eating your gold, but not giving any benefit yet...
- You are researching Iron Working, but Rome already has it! So the gold for IW was kind of wasted, and you will probably no longer be able to achieve the Republic slingshot. Consequently the despotism penalty will hurt your game for quite some time.
I know, you bee-lined for IW because you want to go for a GS rush, but without the power of a Republic government, that rush might not have enough punch to be successful on Emperor level.
A little tip: if one of your neighbors has an iron-based unique unit (Rome/Legions, Persia/Immortals or Celtia/Gallics), then there is no need for you to research Iron Working, because the AI will most probably do it for you... Better concentrate on other things, so you have something as trade bait. The "Writing path" is usually neglected by the AI, so going for the Republic slingshot and/or Literature is almost always a safe bet.
Another thing that is slowing down your research progress is the fact that your cities are too small (and don't have military police yet, once they grow). Probably a consequence of your early war with America and the blocking of the choke point?! In general I would say, you succeeded in crippling America, but the war damaged your game as well. If you finally get the two captured workers back home, they may repair some of the damage in the long run.
splunge the 2nd:
Ok, you continued from my save, and are now in a quite similar position as I am. There is one major difference, however: you did not chop the forest into the first settler. The consequences of this are twofold: first your settler came one turn later (2550BC instead of 2590BC), and you had to work the two forest tiles extensively in order to get the necessary shields, while I was able to work the gold hill here and there for some extra gold. Also you are improving the grassland tile instead of the second plains tile, which takes longer. Both factors result in a slightly slower research: you still have 8 turns left on Writing compared to my 4 turns.
Looks like you are also going for a coastal town first, instead of the very close settlement pattern that I will try. As in Aabraxan's game this should be a very interesting variant to compare, because maritime exploration will be an important point in this game. However, as templar already pointed out, the location at E-SE can be turned into a 2-turn worker factory, which will also be extremely powerful!
Comment on the turnlog: apparently you played 11 turns instead of 10 and then saved at the beginning of the 12th turn (2470BC)... The actions of "Turn 9 2590" seem to be missing in the log, while the turn that you list under that heading should actually be "Turn 10 2550", and the final turn should read "Turn 11 2510".
Finally some comments on PaperBeetle's and templar's examples. I'm not going to make a review of these, because who am I to critize our two of the best MM gurus and long time GOTM champions...?
These are perfect examples of how to play this start. Just some explanations for our students.The first thing you'll notice, is that templar left the two irrigated river plains without a road. Well, I just told you this is bad, didn't I... But in this case it is justified, because it was the only way to get enough food and shields to have the 4-turner operational already at this point. The slight drawback is that in the following turns some worker turns will be lost when putting that missing road on these tiles. But in my approach I still need quite a while to get my 4-turner operational, and I expect that the faster settlers in templar's (and similarly in PaperBeetle's) approach will compensate for that.
Another point that was caused by the bee-line for the 4-turner: there's no military police yet, also resulting in less commerce. This is something that PaperBeetle also mentioned already: from the three starts, mine is the one with the highest commerce, having currently 4 turns left on Writing, compared to PaperBeetle's 9 and templar's 20 turns. The interesting question of this comparison will be, by how much the other two will have caught up in the course of the remaining two techs. Will they reach Republic at the same time or even before me? No idea at the moment. But in any case, we can see here that the different approaches amount to some kind of "trade-off": a bit more security and higher initial commerce traded for more food and faster expansion.
I was planning on playing this game under GOTM rules, so all the above mentioned "stratagems" except for Emsworth Agreements would be allowed...
Cutting trade routes will probably not be a decisive factor in this game (after all, this is powerful mostly for Deity/Sid, isn't it?). But the Emsworth Agreements might be quite powerful, if we can get a decent number of contacts, before we start taking out AIs... So if some of you (creamcheese?) want them illustrated, we could try and set them up? However, I must warn you that this is indeed quite a devilish exploit, especially if we combine it with the disconnect/reconnect strategy to produce Gallics at 10 shields a piece...
OK, the game is now open for turns 31-40!
Please everybody make a save at the end of 2150 BC.
creamcheese
Spreading since 1990
creamcheese:
I like your awareness for MM. E.g. in turns 0 and 2, where you changed tile assignments in order to gain an extra coin, some extra food, etc. Keep it up, this is what it takes to become a MM guru in the early phase...
You finished your first settler in 2590BC, just like in PaperBeetle's, templar's and my game, so you should have quite a strong start. And because you have a warrior in that area, you are able to found the second town by the cow, something that neither of us was able to do.
A tip for improvement might be the following: I see that your worker is currently mining a river grassland, while both river plains are still unimproved. If you irrigate a plain, you'll have an identical tile (2/1/2) as a mined grassland, but you'll have it 2 turns faster! (7 turns for roading/irrigating the plain, instead of 9 turns for roading & mining the grass.) Due to this it will take you longer to get the 4-turner operational.
Also, due to having only one warrior on MP duty, you have only 8gpt. This could be 10gpt as in my game. It will be interesting to see, whether the early cow town will be able to compensate that until Republic.
You already raised the question of who should be the first target for military operations:
You are right about my worker micro, I was concentrating on the gold hill, and forgetting irrigation is cheaper than mining.
I have exactly 5 units, 2 scouts, an MP, settler and a worker. So I'd only gain a little. Just now I am planning the second MP (after second settler), but I am trying to get those great spots first. I don't know which is faster....
You could be right about attacking Rome first to take away iron. I guess I am in my usual builder mode ignoring quick conquests, thinking of some easy wars when a civ has no UU.
I was planning on playing this game under GOTM rules, so all the above mentioned "stratagems" except for Emsworth Agreements would be allowed...
Cutting trade routes will probably not be a decisive factor in this game (after all, this is powerful mostly for Deity/Sid, isn't it?). But the Emsworth Agreements might be quite powerful, if we can get a decent number of contacts, before we start taking out AIs... So if some of you (creamcheese?) want them illustrated, we could try and set them up? However, I must warn you that this is indeed quite a devilish exploit, especially if we combine it with the disconnect/reconnect strategy to produce Gallics at 10 shields a piece...
OK, the game is now open for turns 31-40!
Please everybody make a save at the end of 2150 BC.
I already know all those exploits, I was just wondering if others might like to learn what they are since this is a TDG.
I'll start my set soon.
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
Wow, I feel soo behind...
I've played until Turn 20ish, but it's been slow going with schoolwork the way it is. I'll try and catch up whenever I can.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
just stepped in and saw you are about to continue... well, so i played, after my family went for a short nap just now.
i decided to trade Writing, in order to see the ressources. so better don´t look on the pics if you want to keep that "veil of ignorance".
the moo town won´t become a settler or worker factory for me, but will go for production. it would take forever to set it up, and its lands ask for extra food so someone can work the mined hills in the future. plus for the moment i need some more scouts and city guards.
in my current plan, black is next, and red and blue come after that. this allows the build of a ship eventually, and after that i secure the ressources.
Alesia will grow in 3 with another irrigated FP.
t_x
Edith forgot to mention that I got an SGL for Writing. My first one in ages, as I always play without them (on Deity and Sid, it is really of very low use...). Of course I did not use him.
Otherwise I got 4 warriors now, 3 workers, another settler next turn.
nice that you did not point out that actually i did not do the usual MM-procedure! playing only by my feeling and not with a spreadsheet, i overestimated how early i needed all the mines on the grasses. when they finished, i believe i realized that 1 plains road could have finished before i had to move on. that was a couple of commerce lost. but i am quite positive that the earlier foundings and the faster improvements will compensate for that. after all, i claimed i was playing the "Lanzelot enhanced" game, while PB´s alternative which i also saw is played out by himself already. no need to show all the alternatives here then. ;-)
i decided to trade Writing, in order to see the ressources. so better don´t look on the pics if you want to keep that "veil of ignorance".
the moo town won´t become a settler or worker factory for me, but will go for production. it would take forever to set it up, and its lands ask for extra food so someone can work the mined hills in the future. plus for the moment i need some more scouts and city guards.
in my current plan, black is next, and red and blue come after that. this allows the build of a ship eventually, and after that i secure the ressources.
Alesia will grow in 3 with another irrigated FP.
t_x
Edith forgot to mention that I got an SGL for Writing. My first one in ages, as I always play without them (on Deity and Sid, it is really of very low use...). Of course I did not use him.
Otherwise I got 4 warriors now, 3 workers, another settler next turn.
Finally some comments on PaperBeetle's and templar's examples. I'm not going to make a review of these, because who am I to critize our two of the best MM gurus and long time GOTM champions...?
The first thing you'll notice, is that templar left the two irrigated river plains without a road. Well, I just told you this is bad, didn't I... But in this case it is justified, because it was the only way to get enough food and shields to have the 4-turner operational already at this point.
nice that you did not point out that actually i did not do the usual MM-procedure! playing only by my feeling and not with a spreadsheet, i overestimated how early i needed all the mines on the grasses. when they finished, i believe i realized that 1 plains road could have finished before i had to move on. that was a couple of commerce lost. but i am quite positive that the earlier foundings and the faster improvements will compensate for that. after all, i claimed i was playing the "Lanzelot enhanced" game, while PB´s alternative which i also saw is played out by himself already. no need to show all the alternatives here then. ;-)
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creamcheese
Spreading since 1990
Okay, set 3 is done:
Turn Log:
I am getting a little behind in techs, I am hoping to find another civ soon so I can trade up. I'm also looking to make a curragh at my coastal city. I went for the full slingshot, so CoL, hopefully no one manages Philosophy first.
In more worrying news, the Romans have a warrior marauding near my capital, I hope they do not declare.
Turn Log:
Spoiler :
I am getting a little behind in techs, I am hoping to find another civ soon so I can trade up. I'm also looking to make a curragh at my coastal city. I went for the full slingshot, so CoL, hopefully no one manages Philosophy first.
In more worrying news, the Romans have a warrior marauding near my capital, I hope they do not declare.
Lanzelot said:
That sounds right. I've seen this effect several times. On plenty of 20k attempts I've played non-agricultural and irrigated my first grassland cow first. So, I end up with 6 turn growth to size 2. Then when I've had another grassland cow or wheat nearby, I've grown to size 3 in 4 more turns, and had a cultural expansion messing up my citizens (but thanks for checking that you don't lose the shields when this happens!). Also, if you run specialist farms and then build the Internet citizens need re-assigned, because of cultural expansion.
Templar_x said:
I have to beg to differ here. If playing for a military VC, I think I agree. But, an SGL on those levels could mean you got the Great Library instead of not having it. Or it could mean getting the Temple of Artemis instead of not having it (if you play 100k there). Or it could mean getting Cope's/Newton's instead of not having it, if playing a spaceship or diplomatic game. And the value of an SGL in any 20k game can't get overestimated... especially when you might miss a wonder otherwise... in some games you might actually get 2 more wonders because of one timely SGL, because of the lack of a cascading effect. They do come as significantly harder to get.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
whenever you state something like that, you should better not "beg to differ" but stress that you are solely playing and speaking for HOF-games, where you simply restart if those - very unlikely - events like popping an SGL on Sid do not happen. in normal games, where you do not choose the optimal start position, the optimal initial tradings, the list of AI civs, or whatever else you need to make "SGLs on" on Sid useful, SGLs on would only benefit the AI.
t_x
It's quite possible even on Sid to get to the first tech without doing any of this after a while if you use the cancel trade route trick, outlined here. Additionally, for any 20k Sid game, the value of an SGL can't get overestimated.
But it should also be mentioned that this is banned from the XOTM games (along with a bunch of other unbalancing actions that could loosely be defined as 'cheats') and these rules are adopted and used in most SGs as a code of conduct. And as far as 'cheats' go, this one is pretty blatant.
**Edit** Sorry, the word I was really looking for but could not come up with was 'exploit', not 'cheat'. No offense intended with the choice of words. Obviously everyone has an opinion about what is really an 'exploit' but the XOTM rules is a pretty common standard in usage for team games/contests.
Since you've mentioned that, I will point out that in the last Sid COTM, as I recall and you can read in the spoilers, the conditions of the game did enable the human player to get to some techs first. So, SGLs do have use on Sid, provided you do have them on (which also indirectly may indicate why the COTM competitions don't have SGLs on).
lurker's comment:
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here exactly (the conclusion I completely agree with). By chopping and irrigating, instead of chopping and mining you've 1. made the micromangement easier and 2. made the city grow faster. Of course, with a start like this, you don't have to waste any food when growing with a granary had you decided to mine. You could have the city use a forest, the deer, and 2-fpt squares for 2 turns for 3 food per turn, then use a grassland or irrigated plain instead of the forest on turn three for 4 fpt. You wouldn't use as much food this way. I think this has four non-micromanaging disadvantages though:
1. Mining the deer and using the forests like this sounds like it might actually result in a significant amount of shield overrun when running say a 6-turn settler factory.
2. Settler build time doesn't match city growth time.
3. If you grow every two turns instead of every three turns, you have the "emphasize production" bonus every two turns instead of every three turns.
4. You get more commerce in earlier, at least potentially, with faster growth.
Also, even though I believe Templar_X's approach more powerful, that Lanzelot has done (and no doubt will continue to do) a first-rate job with the training here.
Lanzelot said:
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here exactly (the conclusion I completely agree with). By chopping and irrigating, instead of chopping and mining you've 1. made the micromangement easier and 2. made the city grow faster. Of course, with a start like this, you don't have to waste any food when growing with a granary had you decided to mine. You could have the city use a forest, the deer, and 2-fpt squares for 2 turns for 3 food per turn, then use a grassland or irrigated plain instead of the forest on turn three for 4 fpt. You wouldn't use as much food this way. I think this has four non-micromanaging disadvantages though:
1. Mining the deer and using the forests like this sounds like it might actually result in a significant amount of shield overrun when running say a 6-turn settler factory.
2. Settler build time doesn't match city growth time.
3. If you grow every two turns instead of every three turns, you have the "emphasize production" bonus every two turns instead of every three turns.
4. You get more commerce in earlier, at least potentially, with faster growth.
Also, even though I believe Templar_X's approach more powerful, that Lanzelot has done (and no doubt will continue to do) a first-rate job with the training here.
Ah, I actually did not know that the COTM does not have SGLs enabled. That is very good to know. I suppose it would throw the curve for scoring purposes - anyone that got a lucky early SGL would (all things being equal) pull an award.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
I start the turnset with a settler heading east to take the river mouth location which, with its nearby floodplains, will make a fine second population pump. It also has the advantage of being pretty much the only location beyond the capital that I've acually seen. Alesia is founded in 2430bc, and starts working on a curragh, as I don't expect to make any other coastal cities for a while, and I want to have a look see how far this continent extends, and whether there are any likely off-continent exploration routes.
The second settler is also complete in 2430bc, and heads southwest from Entremont, to found a town at the other end of the river. Initially I'm heading for the hill site on the south side of the river, but as the settler approaches, he sees the nearby moo, which will be accessible and irrigable if I found on the grassland on the north bank. Lugdunum is founded in 2310bc, and starts an axe, as I still have only the two axes that I slipped into Entre's build schedule while waiting for it to get up to factory size.
The third settler is ready in 2270bc, and I figure that as long as there is space on the river, I might as well keep filling it up; he heads south from Entremont, planning for a town site in the hills beyond the gold. Camulodunum is founded in 2190bc, midway between Alesia and Lugdunum, and also starts axe.
But this is also the point at which my smooth expansion is slightly derailed. Mao shows up with two axes at Lugdunum, which is still very much undefended. I am pretty sure they aren't looking for trouble (specifically I think this because they are not on the same tile, so don't look like any attempt at a stack of death, and also didn't know about me until this point). But this guy has knocked me clean out of at least one GotM in the past, so I'm very wary of him. In case he's thinking of taking advantage of my unguarded stance, I buy War Code from him, paying 4gpt and Burial. It's an 80 commerce set-back to my slingshot bee-line, but whether or not it was a necessary expenditure, the Chinese don't attack.
In 2150bc, Writing is done, and I start Laws. I have an interesting choice to make here. Normally, I try not to sell Writing until I am done researching Laws, but on this turn, Mao has a pretty good deal available: he still has 1gpt free from our deal last turn, plus I can get 8g and any two of (a) a slave, (b) Wheel, (c) Ironwork. Do I take the deal, and if so, which of the three options do I take?
Alesia is founded in 2430bc, and starts working on a curragh, as I don't expect to make any other coastal cities for a while, and I want to have a look see how far this continent extends, and whether there are any likely off-continent exploration routes.The second settler is also complete in 2430bc, and heads southwest from Entremont, to found a town at the other end of the river. Initially I'm heading for the hill site on the south side of the river, but as the settler approaches, he sees the nearby moo, which will be accessible and irrigable if I found on the grassland on the north bank. Lugdunum is founded in 2310bc, and starts an axe, as I still have only the two axes that I slipped into Entre's build schedule while waiting for it to get up to factory size.
The third settler is ready in 2270bc, and I figure that as long as there is space on the river, I might as well keep filling it up; he heads south from Entremont, planning for a town site in the hills beyond the gold. Camulodunum is founded in 2190bc, midway between Alesia and Lugdunum, and also starts axe.
But this is also the point at which my smooth expansion is slightly derailed. Mao shows up with two axes at Lugdunum, which is still very much undefended. I am pretty sure they aren't looking for trouble (specifically I think this because they are not on the same tile, so don't look like any attempt at a stack of death, and also didn't know about me until this point). But this guy has knocked me clean out of at least one GotM in the past, so I'm very wary of him. In case he's thinking of taking advantage of my unguarded stance, I buy War Code from him, paying 4gpt and Burial. It's an 80 commerce set-back to my slingshot bee-line, but whether or not it was a necessary expenditure, the Chinese don't attack.
In 2150bc, Writing is done, and I start Laws. I have an interesting choice to make here. Normally, I try not to sell Writing until I am done researching Laws, but on this turn, Mao has a pretty good deal available: he still has 1gpt free from our deal last turn, plus I can get 8g and any two of (a) a slave, (b) Wheel, (c) Ironwork. Do I take the deal, and if so, which of the three options do I take?
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splunge the 2nd
King
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 741
Well, I got my turns in order.
My turnset was unimpressive: missed oppurtunities for saving some gold with the sliders and as pointed out, maybe a poor decision in city placement. I hope I can get the slingshot. I may skip CoL and go right to Philosophy with Map Making or Monacrchy the freebie. I usually play the whole game in Republic. Might be interesting as Monarchy especially if it's going to be bloody! I don't often change governments either, but might work out with the religous Celts.
Here's the save.
My turnset was unimpressive: missed oppurtunities for saving some gold with the sliders and as pointed out, maybe a poor decision in city placement. I hope I can get the slingshot. I may skip CoL and go right to Philosophy with Map Making or Monacrchy the freebie. I usually play the whole game in Republic. Might be interesting as Monarchy especially if it's going to be bloody! I don't often change governments either, but might work out with the religous Celts.
Spoiler :
Here's the save.
