ATTN Firaxis: New patch in the works?

[DigitalBoy]

Nothing to do with manpower. Half the bugs could have been discovered within an hour of playing. It's clearly not tested AT ALL.

I've played over 20 hours of as-shiped Beyond the Sword and at least an hour of version 3.13 and haven't come across so much as a single bug.

 

[Smidlee]

or 5 turns of multiplayer testing.

2-5 minutes.

Asking for 5 minutes of testing multiplayer code is apparently attacking Firaxis.

It was stated before the patch was released that one reason why the patch was delayed was the multiplayer issue. With so many here so impatience I wonder if they release the patch before they had the chance to correct this problem. They may plan to fix the multiplayer soon. One advantage of them releasing the patch early is you got a lot more people running the patch to find the bugs a lot faster.
I've notice that Alexman has visit here pretty much daily since the patch was released.

 

[vilemerchant]

I've played over 20 hours of as-shiped Beyond the Sword and at least an hour of version 3.13 and haven't come across so much as a single bug.

Ahh. You must be one of their testers!

 

[Fjordson]

Try mp - The drops are as common as.. drops in bts

 

[Minoan]

Firaxis should definitly release another patch. Though, a lot of the people here seem to be pretty spoiled when it comes to what they deem a bugged game. Go play Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, and then tell me that Civ IV is "the buggiest game ever." ;D

 

[Evie]

Another patch is necessary.

But given the attitude of people here, who confuse what they ARE owed (a decent BTS patch - 3.13 is a mess enough that I'm not planning to upgrade to it from my vanilla install, which I've been lucky with it seemsl) with what they aren't owed (any pre-release information of any sort whatsoever about any patch), and act like ungrateful little jerks to people who gives them the later, I'd say work on it in secret and release only if and when it's done.

At best, note on the webiste that further patches will be upcoming.

 

[Cabay Jet]

Then when we do get what we ask for it cause other problems.

So now instead of crashing the game the Civilopedia turns the terrain map into a technicolor mess.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Count me in this small number. I'm a big supporter to both Firaxis and Stardock. Just look at what Firaxis did with civ4 especially BTS shows me they did listen to their fans and tries to give us what we ask for.

I agree with your opinion that BtS is in itself a great game but that is not quite the point here.

Imagine buying a brand spanking new ferrari - worth every dollar you paid and in perfect working condition. And then you find out there's some device on the engine which limits the speed to no more than 50km/hr. This is like Bts Multiplayer at the moment. All the game is there, with its great game concepts etc., but it's just frustrating people that MP is giving so many issues and that the game can't be enjoyed the way it's supposed to be.

The single player problems are not very big on the lists of most. It is the crippling mp problems that most are complaining about.

I've played over 20 hours of as-shiped Beyond the Sword and at least an hour of version 3.13 and haven't come across so much as a single bug.

Try playing some MP - that's where the real problems are. Even in games where you can get around the OOS error on starting the game, they keep recurring perhaps every 20 turns or so. It really does get tedious when one or two players have to manually exit the game and then rejoin every time. Entire game crashes are a tad less frequent but I have seen at least a few already in the several games I have started.

Of course it is ok to use unoffical patches for single player bug fixes, but we don't get the same luxury for the MP games.


Now it seems people have gone far off topic in this thread, as is usual with risky topics like this.

I think it would be entirely reasonable to expect Firaxis to inform us whether a patch is in the works or not. That is not difficult at all and doesn't give any incentive for flaming of any kind. Don't dare give us an ETA though. Besides, we'd be intelligent enough to give our own personal ETA if we know what bugs are being fixed.

If it happens that 3.13 was the last patch, we would appreciate it if we were told, so we could start comitting ourselves to the unofficial patches such as Bhruic's brilliant work.

I bet half the posters here did not read the original post.

 

[White Elk]

I think it would be entirely reasonable to expect Firaxis to inform us whether a patch is in the works or not. That is not difficult at all and doesn't give any incentive for flaming of any kind. Don't dare give us an ETA though.

If it happens that 3.13 was the last patch, we would appreciate it if we were told, so we could start comitting ourselves to the unofficial patches such as Bhruic's brilliant work.

Quoted for Truth! That is exactly what I was getting at in the OP.

It is frustrating for an MP group anxiously awaiting a patch that may never come, or is so far out that there was no need to wait for it. PBEMs, PTBS, and GOTM are all community events which I've been a part of which have been delayed by the patching process. Indefinite delays for which we could not plan around due to lack of communication on the part of Firaxis. I've also seen Mods affected by this. And that blasted MAF issue and the Firaxian lack of communication about it was a serious problem. Take2's customer service even denied the existence of the MAF. A little communication from Firaxis regarding the patches would have saved our CivCom a great deal of delay and frustration.

I respect and was very appreciative of alexman's posting of the changelog for the upcoming patch. But I do think he should have updated that post on a weekly basis with a one liner such as.. "Sorry folks the patch will be delayed but we are still working on it". That would have taken much of the heat out of that thread. But hey he's human just like the rest of us and I hold no grudge against him. In fact I respect him for what he did do. However, Firaxis as an entity should be held accountable by their fans for the lack of communication regarding the fixing of the game they sold us. Firaxis is great about incorporating fan feedback into the game and tweaking it beyond mere bug fixing. But that should not absolve them of a fundamental responsibility to keep their consumers informed. Beyond common courtesy it just makes good business sense.

But for me it goes a little deeper than that... (see next post)

 

[White Elk]

Back in the Civ3 days I was very impressed at the Firaxian involvement here. The Firaxians felt like one of us, and I thought that was very cool. It mattered little to me that Civ3 didn't ship with MP and the editor as advertised. Firaxis was communicating with us and I had complete trust that they would make things right. I saw them as part of our unique and passionate Civing Community and the relationship between gamer and developer transcended the normal consumer vs producer paradigm. After Warlords that feeling began to dwindle somewhat. I felt cheated when they stopped patching Warlords despite the unresolved issues (Vassals chief among them). But what really did it for me was that they didn't tell us what was going on. I kept waiting for a patch which never came. And indeed what some posters here had predicted, had actually come true.. Warlords would be 'patched' by BTS. Fine, I am a Civ addict and the pre-ordering of a Civ title was a given for me (or was). But then Warlords Vassals Still had problems in BTS.. and there are Still problems with them post patch. But I could deal with that just like I dealt with Civ3's belated MP and editor if only Firaxis would communicate with us better.

I can't help but wonder that the same thing which happened with Warlords will happen with BTS. That one day the patching will stop without a word while the game is still in need of repair. Firaxia feels distant to me now, and the feeling I once had for the game developer being just "one of the guys" is diminishing. This saddens me. And it makes me a little concerned for the future of the Civ franchise. Firaxis has a great resource in its fanatical fans. I found this to be unique and priceless. Though I think Stardock is rapidly overtaking this niche which, in my mind, used to be pwned solely by Firaxis and Civ. I think it would be very wise for Firaxis to become more involved with their fans here at CFC and Apolyton. Fans can be quite forgiving and understanding when they think they matter. But when they feel they are little more than dollar signs, they can become fatuously unreasonable. A little communication would go a looooong way.

 

[r_rolo1]

^^I have to agree on that... If he are going to speak the truth, most of the today's Firaxis programmers were civ fans in the past, and some of them jumped directly from the CFC and Apolyton to the Firaxis drawing bench ( Jon Shafer, Blake,.... ) and even the Firaxis page directs people to the forums about technical issues.... If Firaxis start to alienate people ( intencionally or not ,that is not the point ), they are shooting their own feet in terms of troubleshooting and about the game mechanics itself ( some glitches and mechanics flaws can only be noticed after some thousand games, and I believe that Firaxis programmers simply don't have time for that ( Revolutions is coming.... )....
Unfortunately the post warlords fuzz that happened here ( most of it because a lot of people felt that Firaxis didn't hear them in some particular regard ( Poland, HRE, the Vassals mechanics ( that is still seriously bugged ( BtS new mechanics of espionage and corps added more unreasonable results to a already buggy implementation )),....) soured things a lot between Firaxis and the forums. And the alexman post about the changes didn't helped either.... ( not the post itself, but the fact that the only visible search of feedback from the part of Firaxis was a unofficial post from a programmer that had been a forum member before that....).
I think the best Firaxis could do would be opening a mirc forum or even a thread or forum in the forums to gather suggestions, with someone acting as a PR in it.... and maybe a "thank you guys" in the manual they sent with BtS would had helped too ( they thanked the fans in the vanilla one, why not in the BtS? A big part of the x-packs content is code made by or inspired in fans work ( the most famous example is the Blake's Better AI mod, that became a core part of Warlords 2.08 and 2.13 and of BtS ) )

 

[onedreamer]

I voted no, if there are MAJOR bugs as you call them we don't need any announcement, they will fix them period. But I have experienced no OOS problems, and I multiplayer (DC) with my wife every day...

 

[Cabay Jet]

Hear hear, White Elk! But I'd like to ask, what does MAF stand for?

 

[JFLNYC]

Memory Allocation Failure.

 

[Horace]

i thought the mp problem had been sorted?

 

[bovinespy]

And what about the rights of those sick of reading these posts by the usual suspects over and over?

Hmmm.... maybe if you PM'd a mod, they could stop the "usual suspects" from forcing you to open and read threads you find troublesome. I know I hate it when anonymous posters compel me to read their horrible, horrible posts. Speak up for your rights and demand satisfaction!

 

[IronCrown]

My informer inside Firaxis just told me that they fired the cleaning lady who was in charge of assembling the patch on a part-time basis after her regular work of cleaning the offices. So there won't be another patch, sorry folks

Also, you might be pleased to know that Firaxis has indeed a large department solely occupied with game testing. The only problem is they outsourced this to Bangladesh to save money and the testers don't have any computers. So they just read the machine code and process it in their brains which makes for rather slow testing.

 

[Doomed_UK]

i thought the mp problem had been sorted?

What multiplayer problem? We don't have one

 

[White Elk]

I voted no, if there are MAJOR bugs as you call them we don't need any announcement, they will fix them period.

Well thats what I would have assumed pre-Warlords. That game received two patches. Second one came a year after the first and included an incomplete user mod (Blakes AI) which drastically changed the AI behavior. But it was incomplete, and even by the time that the patch was made available, Blake had already resolved some of the issues with that latest build of his. A build for which he admitted was buggy. Yet the game was never patched further, nor did Firaxis give ANY information regarding further patching (or the lack thereof as the case was).

Furthermore a significant portion of the CivCom couldn't play on maps larger than standard without experiencing game ending MAFs. Naturally this also adversely affected the bigger MODs. There were PTBS issues and much more. But Firaxis stayed silent and left it to BTS to sort it all out. It would have been nice to have at least known that they would no longer support Warlords. Mod development and the organizing of MP games would have benefited from that knowledge. As would have everyone else who was anxiously awaiting those fixes.

Why should we simply trust that BTS won't go the same route as Warlords did? The only way we can KNOW one way or the other would be for Firaxis to tell us. And that is why I ask Firaxis if a new patch is on the way; and is why I ask our CivCom if they think it reasonable for Firaxis to announce any intentions towards a future patch

 

[jray]

Why should we simply trust that BTS won't go the same route as Warlords did?

I'm afraid that it will. Undoubtedly all their best employees are working on Revolutions because it's such a lucrative cash cow. What do they have to gain from devoting sufficient resources to BtS at this point? All the reviews are already written, and they can afford to screw up a lot with BtS and suffer very little financial penalty. Yeah, they'll take a reputation hit, but I doubt it will amount to much since they're already ahead of the curve. Of course the actual *people* at Firaxis care, but their hands are tied because, like all corporations, they are ultimately driven by the bottom line. Watch the movie called "The Corporation" if you don't believe me .

Let's just be thankful that we have such a devoted fan base with people like Bhruic and Solver and co. to fix bugs-- and that Firaxis itself made the game moddable enough to allow us to fix their bugs.