Attn: Navy Admirals!

[sourboy]

Here's my problem:

I research Destroyer technology, start making them, then after the first batch or so is put to sea - I have Battleship tech - which essentially negates the Destroyers. Now Conquests has added Cruisers in with Destroyers...

Cruisers can at least be upgraded - but what's the point of Destroyers? Can any naval expert tell me how they can be vitalized? Seems like the biggest waste of a unit IMHO.

 

[benstandby]

The cost difference between the BB and the DD is huge! The mainstay of my fleets are destroyers, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I can set a fleet of 4-6 DD, 1-2 BB, 3-4 SS, and 1 CV to sea in way less time than it takes most other civs to build a pile of BBs.

And this fleet can crush a fleet of equal numbers of BB's if I find the enemy first (which is likely with many destroyers and air power on recon duty).

AND in C3C, you need destroyers to stop enemy submarines.

You don't need BB's to stop enemy transports from ariving on your coastlines either. Even if the enemy is escorting the transport with a BB, just hit the stack with a few DD's and (even if you don't win) they will turn back to repair. And you didn't risk an expensive BB.

Build a few of the BB's to finish off large enemy fleets, but you want to keep plenty of DD's around to dish out and soak the lion's share of damage for you.
Bottom Line:
The Destroyer is the MOST IMPORTANT naval unit in the modern era.

 

[The Economist]

I don't have C3C yet, but for me in PTW, I don't build any destroyers. I find that its better to build battleships since most of my cities tend to be able to produce either of them in the same number of turns, more or less, and since they're the same upkeep cost per unit.

But looking at the stats of both of them, I think I'm going to give destroyers a try this time. Usually what I do is get a few battleships, and then build a lot of subs, then nuclear subs once available.

But in C3C, destroyers can now see submarines, which makes them very useful indeed. I think this unit will see a rebirth in the new expansion.

One gripe I've had is that in Civ, battleships are the best sea combat unit. In real life, aircraft carriers are far more effective than battleships. The aircraft carriers in civ are not very useful, and can only carry a mere 4 planes each. Hopefully since air bombardment is now lethal to sea units, aircraft carriers will be better than battleships, as they are in real life.

</end rant>

 

[Trev]

With naval warfare, the weapon itself is relatively unimportant, the important thing is to stack enough together, so that the nearly all of the stack can use bombard mode to safely weaken the enemy before they are finished off by a direct attack with your last couple of units.
Naval units should never be lost during an attack due to the ability to bombard, and if I have insufficient units available to attack I just bombard anyway, once they are weakened they will usually turn rail and return home, gets them out of your way for a number of turns

 

[general_kill]

Destroyers has a movement of 7 in conquest and battle ship has a movement of 5. So destroyers should be used for scouting and exploring. It wouldnt hurt to have 2 or 3 destroyers up ahead of your main force to detect enemy ships. and since its faster, you dont have to wait for it to get ahead.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I build few Destroyers in PTW, but with detect invisible and extra move in C3C I guess I'll build substantial numbers of them once I get around to buying it.

 

[IglooDame]

Destroyers are the "jack-of-all-trades" being cheap and fast enough to be used for patrolling of chokepoints, hunting down of AI transports, and scouting ahead for your invasion force. Keep the battleships for carrier/transport escort and for initial shore bombardment before the bombers get into the act.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Cool, so with Magenials Voyage Destroyers get a movement speed of 8, that is really fast.

 

[IglooDame]

But with any luck, the AI is more nautically-minded with C3C, given that several civs have strong naval preferences now.

 

[Ramboost]

If Destroyers can see enemy subs, can any Battleship (or any unit for that matter) in the same group also see the sub?

What I mean is: If a Destroyer and a fleet of Battleships are in the same group, can all naval units attack the subs, once it has been located by the Destroyer? And what about aircrafts, can the also bombard/attack subs when it has been identified by a Destroyer?

Ramboost

 

[DasScoot]

Originally posted by The Economist
I don't have C3C yet, but for me in PTW, I don't build any destroyers. I find that its better to build battleships since most of my cities tend to be able to produce either of them in the same number of turns, more or less, and since they're the same upkeep cost per unit.

But looking at the stats of both of them, I think I'm going to give destroyers a try this time. Usually what I do is get a few battleships, and then build a lot of subs, then nuclear subs once available.

But in C3C, destroyers can now see submarines, which makes them very useful indeed. I think this unit will see a rebirth in the new expansion.

One gripe I've had is that in Civ, battleships are the best sea combat unit. In real life, aircraft carriers are far more effective than battleships. The aircraft carriers in civ are not very useful, and can only carry a mere 4 planes each. Hopefully since air bombardment is now lethal to sea units, aircraft carriers will be better than battleships, as they are in real life.

</end rant>

I think Civ's AC are closer to the WWII-era ships than the modern ones, in the Pacific battle they were the most important ship, but you still needed a lot of them to do enough damage.


My main naval strategy is a lot of BS, with a few Aegis and Boomer subs for sub-hunting, and 1-3 AC. I use the bombers from the AC to redline enemy ships, and finish them off with the escorts. When I get conquests I probably won't even need the BS escorts anymore.

 

[DubTee1480]

Originally posted by Ramboost
If Destroyers can see enemy subs, can any Battleship (or any unit for that matter) in the same group also see the sub?

What I mean is: If a Destroyer and a fleet of Battleships are in the same group, can all naval units attack the subs, once it has been located by the Destroyer? And what about aircrafts, can the also bombard/attack subs when it has been identified by a Destroyer?

Ramboost

That would make the most sense, any sub w/in the detection radius of a destroyer should be visiable to that civ and it's allies (radio the coordinates). But if the sub wasn't moving, if it were running silent (real life tactic), shouldn't the sub be harder to detect? How are they doing the detection of subs, is it just absolute, like w/in the sight radius of the destroyer or will it be percentage (random number) based partly on chance and proximity? How real are they getting with this?

 

[IglooDame]

Originally posted by Ramboost
If Destroyers can see enemy subs, can any Battleship (or any unit for that matter) in the same group also see the sub?

What I mean is: If a Destroyer and a fleet of Battleships are in the same group, can all naval units attack the subs, once it has been located by the Destroyer? And what about aircrafts, can the also bombard/attack subs when it has been identified by a Destroyer?

In the C3C WW2 scenario at least, if a sub has been located by a sub or destroyer, then anything that can bombard (including artillery if they're near shore) or anything that can drive over that square can hit the sub.

 

[Captain Murphy]

I've had great fun with a low-cost navy. I use destroyers as coastal defense, and make many submarines and nuclear submarines, organizing them in wolfpacks (mimicking WWII Germany).

It's easy to disrupt AI naval traffic, and it's very difficult to slip anything past the coastal destroyer and submarine net. With artillery and cruise missles as additional coastal defense, I've been able to mitigate most of the risk of naval invasion, even against human players. It's also possible to patrol a big enough corridor of sea to allow unescorted/lightly escorted transports a shipping lane with little risk.

The only problem with this method is it requires a large navy. Building it isn't a problem, as submarines and destroyers are cheap, it's the unit maintenance that might get you. I usually have enough favorable trade deals to field large armies, though.

 

[Naval Freak]

i follow a real-world srategy: battle groups.

i only have a max of 4 BBs, since the BBS in civ are the Iowa-class BBS, and in real life there r 4.

i have BB groups, w/ a BB as flagship w/ either 4 destroyers or 4 crusiers/AEGIS crusiers as escorts.
then i have carrier battle groups, 1-2 carriers each w/ 2 BBs as escorts plus 8-16 destroyers/crusiers as a screen, 2-4 nuclear subs, and last 4-6 subs.
last i have task forces. just double the amounts above in carrir B.G.s, then add 6-12 transports.

so far NO ONE has held a single citie against this firepower. i have ALWAYS established a beachead, held it, then brought in 10-30 more transportfuls of armor (armor is any armored vehicle, i.e. tanks, M.A., etc.)

 

[Naval Freak]

P.S.- i dont call myself Naval freak for nothing.

 

[Naval Power]

"i only have a max of 4 BBs, since the BBS in civ are the Iowa-class BBS, and in real life there r 4."

There may be 4 Iowa class but two are in reserve and the others are memorials. We havnt put one out to see since the Gulf War and probably never will considering there major upkeep costs and all the money to modernize them.

They provide nothing to the escort fleet that destoryers and cruisers already cant do. They have extremely limited ASW and AA warfare and there only real tasks now is shore bombardment which missles and planes can now achive.


If you want Battleships to be weaker id suggest taking away there attack and defense (along wiht all ships) and only allow them to bombard. Then yu can have two BB's sitting 2 (or more if you mod them) squares apart just shelling eachother untill one sinks. I might do that but ill have to see how the AI handles it.

 

[IglooDame]

Originally posted by Naval Freak
P.S.- i dont call myself Naval freak for nothing.

Boy, we really do seem to have collected the Navy Admirals in this thread.

Everyone up for a huge-archipelago-mostly-water multiplayer game?

NavalFreak - what in particular are you freaky about?

 

[Reynoulds #]

Naval Freak, you ought to build 2 more for the 2 that were never completed. Then you could also build the Monatanas. And don't forget about the 3 Alaska Class "Cruisers", they looked alot like Iowas.

 

[Hygro]

I say build a bunch of destroyers for solo patrol as to make the AIs naval skills more of a challange