Australian Summer Patch discussion thread

[Haggbart]

The problem with barbs is the same as pre-patch (except they are somewhat more aggresive, especially barb scouts - which is fine). That is the AVERAGE level of annoyance is okay, I'm totally fine with having to deal with a whole lot of barbs on the highest difficulty levels. However some games they'll hardly be a bother at all, other games I've had 3 camps throwing horse archers and horsemen at me at a frantic pace. So some consistancy would be fine. Maybe scale down the spawn rate of horse units until turn X or whatever, to at least give you a chance to adapt and clear out the camps before all hell breaks loose.

Note that this is only a concern with horse camps, the other are fine and you're well enough equipped to deal with them with early game techs. Same goes for the aggresion level, which IMHO is good now.

 

[shaglio]

I don't see there ever being a Build queue because of the way Districts work.

There's a Production Queue mod in the Creation & Customization forum that works pretty well.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

There's a Production Queue mod in the Creation & Customization forum that works pretty well.

Yeah, I use that one... it is good, although sometimes I add things to the Queue by accident

 

[Tuvok694]

Used to play on level "king", but today I had to realize that this is waaaaay too hard now (after the patch) for my playing abilities. Barbarians and AI are so much more aggressive now that a more "peaceful" game without much warfare is just not possible anymore.

 

[Siptah]

There's a Production Queue mod in the Creation & Customization forum that works pretty well.

It's not that it is impossible. It just doesn't help nearly as much as in earlier civs and I think the devs will never add this for this reason. In contrary, it's easy to harm your empire big time when using a production queue in this game. And didn't they say before release that they want to get rid of (all) that automated stuff? Maybe they change their mind at some point and add (at least) a repeat button for projects.

 

[MosheLevi]

Used to play on level "king", but today I had to realize that this is waaaaay too hard now (after the patch) for my playing abilities. Barbarians and AI are so much more aggressive now that a more "peaceful" game without much warfare is just not possible anymore.

How aggressive is the AI? Does it train big armies?

My last game (before the last patch) was also on "King" and it was very boring.
Once I had 15 cities I declared war on all the AI's (5 of them) and it was still super easy.
The AI had almost no military units and it was also very passive when I was conquering its cities.

Now I want to start a new game but I am not sure if I should play at a higher difficulty.
Any suggestions?

 

[shaglio]

It's not that it is impossible. It just doesn't help nearly as much as in earlier civs and I think the devs will never add this for this reason. In contrary, it's easy to harm your empire big time when using a production queue in this game. And didn't they say before release that they want to get rid of (all) that automated stuff? Maybe they change their mind at some point and add (at least) a repeat button for projects.

I wouldn't consider a Production Queue "automated." You still have to manually add the items to the queue. It's not like you just click a button and the City Governor adds items to the queue that it thinks you should build.

 

[Siptah]

Yes, you are right there.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

No UI changes. Every single issue I had still persists. I still have to dig for information that should be a tooltip away. The city screen UI is still incompetent with that pointless overlap. Last built bug is still present.

Game is just as bad and purposely obtuse as was it was before. The best they can do is to give us good modding tools and promise not to patch anymore so their pointless patches don't ruin good mods.

That about sums it up. So long as the controls are in alpha, it's not a good game.

 

[Pietato]

Legions don't require iron and come with additional perks. So, buffing baseline swordsmen up to the same strength doesn't mean Legions weren't considered.

They also cost more. Not really an upgrade, now.

Many unique units needs adjustments now, due to this patch:

- Legion needs cost reduced or more strength.
- Ngalo Mbala (Kongo UU) needs 5 more strength. It repaces the swordsmen, yet has 5 LESS strength.
- Samurai is now pointless if you have iron, as it costs twice (!) as much as a swordsman, is available much later, and only has 5 more strength.
- Mamluk (Arabia UU) needs a slight boost to compensate for later Stirrups tech.
- Berserker is even more of a joke. Needs a rework.

No idea why these were not addressed with this patch.

 

[Pietato]

The problem with barbs is the same as pre-patch (except they are somewhat more aggresive, especially barb scouts - which is fine). That is the AVERAGE level of annoyance is okay, I'm totally fine with having to deal with a whole lot of barbs on the highest difficulty levels. However some games they'll hardly be a bother at all, other games I've had 3 camps throwing horse archers and horsemen at me at a frantic pace. So some consistancy would be fine. Maybe scale down the spawn rate of horse units until turn X or whatever, to at least give you a chance to adapt and clear out the camps before all hell breaks loose.

Note that this is only a concern with horse camps, the other are fine and you're well enough equipped to deal with them with early game techs. Same goes for the aggresion level, which IMHO is good now.

I had a barbarian scout spot my city on turn 2, and horsemen swarm me on turn 5. Yeah, something is not tuned right.

Also barbs are using a lot more archers now, and they HURT.

 

[PendragonWRB]

I had a barbarian scout spot my city on turn 2, and horsemen swarm me on turn 5. Yeah, something is not tuned right.

Also barbs are using a lot more archers now, and they HURT.

I faced a similar issue in one of my new games after patch, not with horseman, but I don't see how it's fair that the barb camps send a scout on turn 1 that could literally spot you on turn 2 or 3 and your warrior may have gone the opposite direction. There is NO way to get back and stop the scout, and you are faced with four units headed to your city by turn 7 or 8. Just not fair. This was on Emperor btw, I had dialed back from Immortal as I expected slightly more resistance from the AI, and I am feeling that with the patch.

Either the camps should not spawn for the first 10 turns or so or their scout should not spawn, or they should be some minimum distance from your start location.

 

[Ferocitus]

I faced a similar issue in one of my new games after patch, not with horseman, but I don't see how it's fair that the barb camps send a scout on turn 1 that could literally spot you on turn 2 or 3 and your warrior may have gone the opposite direction. There is NO way to get back and stop the scout, and you are faced with four units headed to your city by turn 7 or 8. Just not fair. This was on Emperor btw, I had dialed back from Immortal as I expected slightly more resistance from the AI, and I am feeling that with the patch.

Either the camps should not spawn for the first 10 turns or so or their scout should not spawn, or they should be some minimum distance from your start location.

Higher levels are meant to be very tough to beat, and nobody should expect
to win every time. Try a lower level if you can't handle the pressure.

It's not I can't handle. It's not fun because it's out of the player's control.

It's out of your control, not everybody's.

Also facing AI civs below emperor are like an adult fighting 8 year old kids most of the time..

That was Civ < 6.
You can't get passed the first few moves before the barbs sucker punch you out of the game.
Others are able to compensate and craft their tactics and strategies to the higher levels, all
depending on the map, civ and opponents they choose. Why can't you?

 

[PendragonWRB]

Higher levels are meant to be very tough to beat, and nobody should expect
to win every time. Try a lower level if you can't handle the pressure.

I am at a lower level, scouts should not be on your city on turn 2 or 3 on Emperor.

 

[Ferocitus]

I am at a lower level, scouts should not be on your city on turn 2 or 3 on Emperor.

I can't see why they shouldn't be. You can't handle them, so try a different strategy,
or an even lower level until you know how to cope with them.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I think I had 1 game in the entire time I have played civ6, where the barbs attacked so early that it was literally impossible to survive. Every other instance, I could beat the barbs as long as I built 2-3 units first. The barbs are not that bad as long as you focus on your military first.

 

[shaglio]

I think I had 1 game in the entire time I have played civ6, where the barbs attacked so early that it was literally impossible to survive. Every other instance, I could beat the barbs as long as I built 2-3 units first. The barbs are not that bad as long as you focus on your military first.

This was my hardest transition from Civ 5 to Civ 6. I started out building Scout -> Monument - > Scout and was getting destroyed by barbs. I've since adopted a Slinger -> Slinger start and it's help out immensely. It's all about adaptation.

Although, those Horse barb camps can still be a huge nuisance!

 

[PendragonWRB]

I can't see why they shouldn't be. You can't handle them, so try a different strategy,
or an even lower level until you know how to cope with them.

No, I am not going to play on a lower level because the rest of the game will be a joke. My first build is always a scout, and if I have spotted anything to kill, my second build is a slinger. It's just unbalanced for a barbarian camp to be able to produce more than I can in the first ten turns or so. If you get really unlucky you have two barbs camps in opposite directions and that's potentially ten units to deal with. They just need some kind of little tweak to be either a little farther away or spawn a scout a little later.

 

[Tacgnol]

I can't see why they shouldn't be. You can't handle them, so try a different strategy,
or an even lower level until you know how to cope with them.

Look dude, it's not even about strategy.

The people who win on Deity, still lose on Deity sometimes when they get a very bad start.

Randomness is still a huge part of Civ VI especially in start locations, sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you get one that's basically unwinnable. Back in Civ IV FFH there were countless times when I would explore a dungeon early on and trigger multiple 5 strength barbs to invade and burn my capital when all I had are warriors with like 2str, it was an unfortunate part of the game setup that made some starts just end in utterly unavoidable failure by bad luck. And the overall mechanics that contributed to this were more positive than not so it was worth it.

I feel the same about the barbs, sometimes the way they spawn just really screws you up, and your insulting other people's skill for not being able to deal with an unmanageable situation is really obnoxious, it's just the way it is, when your warrior went west and a scout shows up with an ! on turn 5 and runs back east, building a slinger isn't gonna stop the rush of horse archers, skill has nothing to do with it, it's luck. But that said it's easy to restart when things go bad in the first 10 turns, and outside of those occasional ridiculous situations, I do think it's balanced, at least on Deity.

But yeah I haven't had issues on Emperor but barbs should definitely not be spawning an invasion in the first 10 turns on lower difficulties.

 

[PendragonWRB]

With movement the way it is on VI, it's really hard to get your immediate surroundings explored quickly. The warrior has to pick one direction, and the first scout can pick the other, but that's four turns before it even is built. Even if you only scan six hexes out getting back just takes too long. The barb scouts are just to maneuverable, even for slingers who can only move once before shooting.

The scout 'delay' should scale with level, but on Emperor you should have at least a few turns to reconnoiter.