Avatar

[crazyunits]

Avatar's only redeeming value it's its graphics.

 

[Newbunkle]

I saw it again last night and it was still awesome. The theatre was almost full, which is pretty good this many weeks after its release.

 

[lovett]

Saw this last night; Brilliant movie.

 

[aelf]

Yet this uncomparable-ness does not seem to cause people any trouble when they attempt to draw moral lessons from the movie. So stretch your imagination a bit.

The other day I was actually going to make a comment that I think it's stupid to draw lessons or to debate the meaning of the movie, but I just couldn't be bothered to wade into an argument that defeats itself because of its own pointlessness.

You're right. I do think the real world and the movie are uncomparable. The fact that people rush to compare them is telling of the disease that infects us within the capitalist ideology - the desire to create unities where there are none and to dominate objects with a vision dictated by the subject. It begins when we decide to use price mechanisms, especially when we regard them as a real way to measure some sort of inherent worth to adjudicate between things that are uncomparable.

 

[holy king]

symbolism in art is a symptom of capitalism?

 

[aelf]

symbolism in art is a symptom of capitalism?

Maybe? Though I don't think so. It's not symbolism so much as the eagerness to draw comparisons and to measure things against each other. Sure, I think something like Avatar may be able to tell us something about the real world, although I doubt it will stand under scrutiny in this case, but to compare it with what happened or happens in the real world requires too much imagination.

Also, I think it's not a symptom of capitalism. Rather, it shares a similar premise with capitalist ideology.

 

[holy king]

looking for patterns, systems and similarities in everything is very much harcoded into the human brain.

 

[Labtec600]

Didnt feel like going through 24 pages. Maybe it was said - maybe it wasnt.

I felt the movie sucked. Nothing special about the acting or the story. Seems like today they try and impress you with the graphic portion but add no substance. I wouldnt sit through this again if you paid me.

 

[aelf]

looking for patterns, systems and similarities in everything is very much harcoded into the human brain.

Maybe, but there's plenty to say about how far that's been taken, which has in fact been said across ideological lines. Besides, that says nothing about whether the comparisons are legitimate or not.

 

[lovett]

Maybe, but there's plenty to say about how far that's been taken, which has in fact been said across ideological lines. Besides, that says nothing about whether the comparisons are legitimate or not.

So you think pattern searching is a function of capitalism and not millions of years of human evolution? Not just that, but that this is meant to be bad?

Frankly, if the capitalist ideology infects us with the desire to search for patterns in disorganized data then its doing a very good job indeed.

 

[aelf]

So you think pattern searching is a function of capitalism and not millions of years of human evolution? Not just that, but that this is meant to be bad?

Frankly, if the capitalist ideology infects us with the desire to search for patterns in disorganized data then its doing a very good job indeed.

I don't think you're reading my posts closely enough, which frankly isn't a feat to accomplish. Suffice to say that I didn't say that it's a function of capitalism, nor did I say that the latter infects us with the former as such ("infects us within the ideology" - no strong causality needs to be implied there). I said that both share a similar premise. And I'd add that, if anything, capitalism owes much to such a tendency.

And, again, I will say that anti-capitalists are not the only ones who have said that it's gone too far. Some capitalists have also rung the alarm bells.

 

[BasketCase]

symbolism in art is a symptom of capitalism?

Yes, if it's three hundred million dollars' worth of symbolism.....

Its amazing how many different movies its supposed to copy.

Dear God, you have no idea how right you really are. This movie is "Alien" and "Aliens" all over again (all other "Alien" movies after those first two are pathetic laughable farces), made by the SAME DIRECTOR, carrying the same message of anti-corporatism, and having Sigourney Weaver in them.

 

[Gilder]

Dear God, you have no idea how right you really are. This movie is "Alien" and "Aliens" all over again (all other "Alien" movies after those first two are pathetic laughable farces), made by the SAME DIRECTOR, carrying the same message of anti-corporatism, and having Sigourney Weaver in them.

No, just Aliens. The original was directed by Ridley Scott.

 

[BasketCase]

Ah. So it was. Good enough for me; "Aliens" had the same anti-business message in it, and with almost the same lack of subtletey as Avatar:

"You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. I don't see THEM screwing each other over for a percentage."

"All right, we waste him. No offense."

 

[Earthling]

Dear God, you have no idea how right you really are. This movie is "Alien" and "Aliens" all over again (all other "Alien" movies after those first two are pathetic laughable farces), made by the SAME DIRECTOR, carrying the same message of anti-corporatism, and having Sigourney Weaver in them.

Alien was by Ridley Scott.

Anyway, I wouldn't say that it's so many movies being "copied" - for that we've really only got Dances with Wolves and maybe a couple of animated ones I don't know much about like Fern Gully. What is true is that many of the same themes of Avatar are present and given much better treatments in many other movies - for instance the Colonel in Avatar is really a poor and one-dimensional inclusion of a Vietnam-era stock character

 

[warpus]

Ah. So it was. Good enough for me; "Aliens" had the same anti-business message in it, and with almost the same lack of subtletey as Avatar:

"You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. I don't see THEM screwing each other over for a percentage."

"All right, we waste him. No offense."

Alien was anti-business?
I realize who I am responding to here, but you are gonna have to explain that one.

Yes, I realize that one of the "baddies" from that Universe was the mega corporation that employed everybody (as in, the characters in the movie, not everybody in the Universe), but that's.. just.. 1 corporation. We didn't see any others, nor was there a "down with capitalism" type of message in the movie.

 

[Diana Abnoba]

Can't wait to see this movie, of course in 3D. The special effect will be worth the price of admission.

 

[BasketCase]

Alien was anti-business?
I realize who I am responding to here, but you are gonna have to explain that one.

It was less-pronounced in the first Alien movie, but there was a slimy corporate presence in the form of Ash. He was under special orders to bring back an alien for study, and "all other considerations are secondary".

It's been a recurring theme in all the Alien movies, but it gets worse and worse as the series goes (which isn't saying much, because the movies themselves get worse and worse--they should have stopped at two).

Avatar, of course, takes the theme way too far. The simplistic and obvious plot and characters, combined with the PG-13 rating, makes me wonder if Cameron specifically intended this to be a kids' movie?

 

[aelf]

It was less-pronounced in the first Alien movie, but there was a slimy corporate presence in the form of Ash. He was under special orders to bring back an alien for study, and "all other considerations are secondary".

It's been a recurring theme in all the Alien movies, but it gets worse and worse as the series goes (which isn't saying much, because the movies themselves get worse and worse--they should have stopped at two).

If it was a government instead of a corporation, it would've been the same. If anything, the intended message could be something related to the unscrupulousness of large organisations with their own pragmatic and inhuman goals.

 

[Bast]

The disaster in Haiti made me think about this movie in a completely different light.

Yeah, I know. You're wondering what the bloody hell Haiti has to do with Avatar. Stick with it. Read this through to the end and you'll get it.

Haiti is a dying world; they have suffered a devastating environmental disaster and must look to the outside in order to survive. (Is this starting to sound familiar yet?) So Haiti looks to another world, a world living in (by comparison) palatial splendor and uncountable wealth. And the inhabitants of that other world share willingly--even though, several years ago, one of their most sacred holy places got blown up.

The Na'Vi are the United States. The Haitians are the RDA. Actually, the RDA represent many poor nations of the real-world Earth; many are always asking the United States/Na'Vi for help, and sometimes threatening (or occasionally even ATTACKING) the United States/Na'Vi when the latter refuse to share. Out here in the real world, the United States is expected to share.


The following is something that never seems to come up in discussions about this movie (though I have not read many): why is it the U.S. should share its unobtainium and the Na'Vi should not??? Perhaps the Na'Vi should have simply accomodated the RDA, considering that the dispute is over a mineral the Na'Vi have no use for and will never need.

This post is despicable. How do you sleep at night?