AW Shucks

[astre]

irrigation of the corn did not worked out in my try.
if irrigation need civil service, i don't think it is a good idea to wait that long.

 

[lymond]

irrigation of the corn did not worked out in my try.
if irrigation need civil service, i don't think it is a good idea to wait that long.

Well yeah, you need Civil Service, but at least we have something to look forward too...there won't be much to in this game

4 reasonable/relatively productive cities can be settled on this side of the mountain. Settling Lima there cancels that option.

 

[mlinneak]

well, maybe the word is not best chosen ^^
My english is not yet perfect, don't be afraid to correct me

lurker's comment: You used the word correctly, astre, there are a lot of words in English that have multiple meanings depending upon context.

 

[vanatteveldt]

@lymond: I think SE of corn is suboptimal. The lake is nice but a dry corn is better anyway (5f1h vs 3f3c). I also don't see Maoi useful there, for maoi I would want a city that has a couple of tiles that are actually good, eg lakes or seafood. Maoi coast is still only 2h1h3c.

I agree that we should skip the wonders except oracle, and get out of our prison asap; I would vote south for quicker productive cities.

Winning the game will be tough. We can probably win a space race with south america, but I'm not sure what kind of invasion forces we can expect. The euros will probably suck, but China, Persia, and Russia can be monsters.

 

[pigswill]

I played a very long experiment (up to 1280bc!). Built gwall in 2360 (SH completed elsewhere 2480). Built Glight 1280. Now time to expand. No rush for early expansion because you're only competing with barbs.

 

[lymond]

@lymond: I think SE of corn is suboptimal. The lake is nice but a dry corn is better anyway (5f1h vs 3f3c).

It's not 5F1H.....

Maoi is questionable but not really that bad...at least in the spot I recommend, which is IMO not suboptimal at all (relatively speaking). Considering this is our cap, Maoi would make it Bureau worthy and we may not have the time to move the cap. Deer/crab may be okay spot too. Otherwise, there's no true Maoi sites on this side of the mountain, I realize that, but it's trying to make the most of this very suboptimal start.

 

[vanatteveldt]

@lymond yeah it's no walk in the park. I guess you're right that it is 4f1h, which makes even a lake tile look attractive.

Moai costs 250, we don't have stone but are IND, so 167 hammers. Given that it will give something like 1-5 hammers per turn, this is a pretty long ROI even with buro. Long term, our cap should definitely move east, I think there is a central location in Brasil that is all riverside grassland after chopping; but that will take ages to get developed. Montevideo is mainly food rich, so better as GP farm than buro cap. I guess we don't really have an obvious buro cap...

I think winning this game will depend on speed and focus, aimed 100% at getting south america developed asap. This means sufficient military, lots of settlers, and tons of workers. This might be one of those games where serfdom makes sense.

We also need to choose (I think) between a cottage-based economy and a hammers-based econ. Assuming we are aiming at space, I think cottages make most sense.

 

[lymond]

@van

Spoiler :

this game isn't winnable

 

[vanatteveldt]

Spoiler :

that's what we call a challenge, no?

I would assume that the deity AW games played on these forums are a lot more difficult than an immortal earth18 AW game. In general, I rate earth18 1 or 2 difficulties lower due to AI failure to adapt. But I guess you've tried and failed?

 

[lymond]

Spoiler :

Actually, this is Emperor I believe. I've played a bit of the early game to test some starts and timings. Most of the Deity AW games are setup with starts and leaders that will provide some competitiveness.

Incan Earth18 start is already notoriously and horrendously bad, so I don't agree with your 1 or 2 diff lower point here. Then you add AW, which is a really different animal. The logistics of this start combined with AW is pretty crazy. My prediction is we will probably get hit by sea first from the old world countries - like China, before Aztecs/Americans ever attack or we have sufficient means to launch something on North/Central America. And tech stealing, a big part of AW, is not going to help us much in time.

Lack of Food is the really big issue here

 

[astre]

Inca in E18 at emperor level is fairely doable but usualy rely on big cash tech at some point.
In our game, we just have to be perfect and, why not try to attack north america at some point...

btw, it would have been easier with a civ from north america ^^ but inca will be fun.

We still don't know for sure how to start this game.

please each player fill his template how he would like to start this game:

astre: found santiago and monteviseo ASAP

lymond:

nocho

pigswill

rolo

Van A

 

[pigswill]

Win or lose it will be a challenge.

Given we don't have competition for land (except nasty barbs) I think we can afford to try at least one early wonder. If barbs will be manageable with quechas/axes then I'd go for Glight before second city. All the eastern sites are coastal (as are many of the western sites) and in this scenario the limit to early (pre AD) rex will be economic.

Going SE to grab lake, corn, gold and hill is slightly less powerful (sic) than 2 corns but has the benefit of leaving second corn for northern dye city.

As to whether the game is winnable. I don't know but let's give it a whirl. At least we don't have any variant restrictions. The problems with the inca start are food shortages and isolation. With AW early isolation is probably a benefit. Could we manage to tech steal from Monte? Its something to consider.

A key issue is going to be naval power as no-one can invade overland. In the medium term going for frigates (astro+chemistry) is likely to prove useful.

In summary:I propose ( blush) we start by settling SE, tech fishing>sailing>masonry BW. Build Worker>LH>glight (quechas in between).

 

[astre]

whatever choice we take for tech, mining must be in the top 2 techs.
gold tile must be used asap.

astre: found santiago and monteviseo ASAP

lymond:

nocho

pigswill: settling SE, tech fishing>sailing>masonry BW. Build Worker>LH>glight (quechas in between)

rolo

Van A

 

[vanatteveldt]

I personally think that a wonder won't be worth it except the cheap oracle, but if we want one, I agree that GLH is the only real option as the others will be a big gamble without stone.

I would settle 2W (eg 1W of gold), tech Agri - mining - fishing - sailing, build worker -> quechua+ -> settler, improve corn, corn, gold, hill, 2nd city. We might wish to insert wheel/pottery in there somewhere, but with the gold and no rex we should have enough science initially.

I would end the turn there and setup new debate over

1) 2nd city: on the dye for immediate corn and un-jungled hill access, 1S of dye for long term, or copper city
2) Next steps: build TGL or start "escape"? Try to oracle MC / CoL or even Feudalism or Theology?

I also propose naming our capital Alcatraz. Sounds incan enough to me

----

astre: found santiago and monteviseo ASAP

lymond:

nocho

pigswill: settling SE, tech fishing>sailing>masonry BW. Build Worker>LH>glight (quechas in between)

rolo

van: settle 2W (eg 1W of gold), tech Agri - mining - fishing - sailing, build worker -> quechua+ -> settler, improve corn, corn, gold, hill, 2nd city.

Edited to reduce stupidity. Astre, merci!

 

[astre]

side note for Van A: we start with agri

 

[lymond]

If by SE, pigs means the desert tile SE of the corn(next to lake and not in the lake ), then I agree with him. However, Mining is the obvious start here if we go worker first.

I am very opposed to settling 2W.

 

[pigswill]

I forgot mining (carelessly assumed we started with it) so yes mining>fishing etc.

What d'ya mean? We can't settle in the lake ? This game sucks .

On a more flippant note: we're waiting for a few more opinions before we start the serious arguments (and I haven't even rolled a start )

 

[r_rolo1]

As I see it, we have two options : the first is to settle peacefully S .America and then wait for the storm ... the second is to take down monty fast ( that is assuredly not easy ) and then resume.

Anyway, for now settle 2 S of starting point, Mining->Fishing, worker

 

[lymond]

Pigs - Make sure you turn off tech trading

 

[astre]

Lymond, i thought about it and, clearly, it will become mutch more easy with that option ^^
too easy perhasp...