Ayn Rand, Objectivism, Atlas Shrugged, et al.

[Cheetah]

I actually liked Atlas Shrugged. It's was quite entertaining, though Galt's speech was a bit many pages too long.

The philosophy and moral arguments were mostly plagiarized however. It's easy to see that Rand grew up in Russia. The original version still appeals to me now, just as it did when I was a child.

Oh, and if you have no idea what this thread is about, this is a good overview:


Link to video.

Anyone have something more to add on the subject?

 

[BvBPL]

 

[Old Hippy]

^ ^
"When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich..."

 

[GoodSarmatian]

There is a Norwegian guy who read and liked Atlas Shrugged ?
I hadn't even heard of Ayn Rand until a couple of years ago (on this forum), and just this year I saw a physical copy of Atlas Shrugged in a bookstore for tje first time in my life.
Of course, it was in the English section.

 

[Lohrenswald]

There is a Norwegian guy who read and liked Atlas Shrugged ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_People%27s_Party_%28Norway%29

Anyone have something more to add on the subject?

Ayn Rand is despicable, and her "philosophy" is abhorrent.

 

[warpus]

I saw a copy of Atlas Shrugged at my aunt's place, and so I had no choice but to give everyone a big lecture about how libertarianism is a stepping philosophy to insanity.

I'm actually not even making that up, and we all had a good laugh about it since my lectures are usually funny. This one was pretty scathing though. I mean.. It's libertarianism. It's the opiate of the masses. We've got to fight it whenever it rears its ugly head.

 

[RFC_Viceroy]

I saw a copy of Atlas Shrugged at my aunt's place, and so I had no choice but to give everyone a big lecture about how libertarianism is a stepping philosophy to insanity.

I'm actually not even making that up, and we all had a good laugh about it since my lectures are usually funny. This one was pretty scathing though. I mean.. It's libertarianism. It's the opiate of the masses. We've got to fight it whenever it rears its ugly head.

The Randian objectivist cult has little to do with actual libertarianism.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

1 question.

If public funds are an abomination, does this mean a society where the unfit are left to suffer? Disclaimer: charity won't be sufficient by lightyears.

 

[dusters]

Is Ayn Rand the only contemporary philosopher you have heard of? When i studied philosophy, i could name a dozen.

I mean, she has the smarts, but this is like 4th thread for her. She is worth reading, but without context there is no flow...

 

[useless]

The Randian objectivist cult has little to do with actual libertarianism.

It just happens to reinforce and espouse libertarian ideals

It's coincidental you see

 

[Borachio]

This is very depressing to me.

You mean at some stage I'm going to have to read Atlas Shrugged? I'm not looking forward to it at all. Maybe I'll get run over by a bus or lose my ability to read or understand anything before then. So, there's always hope, I guess.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I actually like objectivism, but I consider it more of an ideal to strive for, rather than a practical philosophy of life. Unfortunately, real world examples prove time and again that there are plenty of people who will abuse others any way they can given half a chance, which makes objectivism less than ideal for the present time.

By the way, for anyone who may not understand objectivism, one of my favorite explanations of it is on, of all websites, TVTropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Objectivism

 

[Timsup2nothin]

This is very depressing to me.

You mean at some stage I'm going to have to read Atlas Shrugged? I'm not looking forward to it at all. Maybe I'll get run over by a bus or lose my ability to read or understand anything before then. So, there's always hope, I guess.

Try The Fountainhead. Gets the point across in half the pages. You will either find objectivism objectionable, or you won't.

 

[crabapple]

A very disgusting ideology, on par with fascism

 

[Borachio]

Try The Fountainhead. Gets the point across in half the pages. You will either find objectivism objectionable, or you won't.

Thanks. I will. (If/when I get around to it.)

I generally do find the recommendation of self-conscious selfishness (if it does boil down to that) rather objectionable, though. Because I believe we're not quite the autonomous agents that we like to imagine.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I believe one of our best inventions was a society. When asked to participate in it, that's not stealing.

That is not to say that there are far too many liberties taken with public funds in my opinion, but those are directed towards corruption. Not demonising anyone who needs help as a leech, or lazy, or inadequate, and deriving from that hideous perspective a notion of superiority.

And less rationally, I cannot stand how the people that are complaining about their hard-earned money when they take every opportunity to cut corners, avoid responsibility and take every advantage of the system they can find, are belly-acking against that same system.

 

[jackelgull]

My introduction to Rand's brand if libertarian ideal, aka Objectivism was through the work of her protege Terry Goodkind. Anyone unfortunately acquainted with the pile of garbage he wrote, The Sword of Truth series, will understand why that turned me off of the philosophy.

 

[Ajidica]

I never actually got around to reading her novels, but I did read some of her essays in an attempt to understand her philosophy without the horrendous writing. It didn't help.
In one case, she lists what she considers the two greatest accomplishments in human history (surprisingly, neither of them involve Ayn Rand). Those two accomplishments were the Transcontinental Railroad and the Apollo Project: two of the greatest peacetime government initiatives quite possibly in recorded history.
In her essays, she really just comes across as a self-important curmudgeon who feels obliged to try and refute everything 'mainstream' due to a self-constructed dichotomy of "Ayn Rand" and "The Sheeple" where anything that comes from "The Sheeple" must be wrong because it did not come from "Ayn Rand".

 

[Cheetah]

There is a Norwegian guy who read and liked Atlas Shrugged ?

Call me crazy, but I found it to be fairly entertaining. But then I've always had a liking for fairytales: Simple plots with one dimensional characters are easy fun.

Is Ayn Rand the only contemporary philosopher you have heard of? When i studied philosophy, i could name a dozen.

I mean, she has the smarts, but this is like 4th thread for her. She is worth reading, but without context there is no flow...

The thread was just an excuse to post the Late Week Tonight video and to see if someone would say something funny/interesting.

This is very depressing to me.

You mean at some stage I'm going to have to read Atlas Shrugged? I'm not looking forward to it at all. Maybe I'll get run over by a bus or lose my ability to read or understand anything before then. So, there's always hope, I guess.

No need to read the long version if you don't feel like it. Here's the original, shorter one:

The Story of The Little Red Hen

Once upon a time, a lamb, a cat, a pig, and a little red hen lived on an old farm on a flowery hill surrounded by fields of golden wheat. One day, the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat scattered in the barnyard. "Look what I've found!" she said to the other animals. "Who will help me plant these grains of wheat?"

"Not I!" said the lamb.
"Not I!" said the cat.
"Not I!" said the pig.

"Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. She knew that seeds need water to grow tall and strong. "Who will help me water these seeds?" asked the Little Red Hen.

"Not I!" said the lamb.
"Not I!" said the cat.
"Not I!" said the pig.

"Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The Little Red Hen watered the soil and waited patiently for the wheat to grow. When the wheat was tall and golden, she knew it was ready to be cut. "Who will help me harvest the wheat?" asked the Little Red Hen.

"Not I!" said the lamb.
"Not I!" said the cat.
"Not I!" said the pig.

"Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The Little Red Hen's basket was soon filled with wheat. "Who will help me take the wheat to the mill to be ground into flour?" asked the Little Red Hen.

"Not I!" said the lamb
"Not I!" said the cat.
"Not I!" said the pig.

"Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The kind miller ground the wheat into powdery, velvety flour, and the Little Red Hen carried it home in a rough brown sack. "Who will help me make this flour into bread?" asked the Little Red Hen.

"Not I!" said the lamb.
"Not I!" said the cat.
"Not I!" said the pig.

"Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The Little Red Hen mixed the flour into sticky dough and kneaded it into a smooth loaf. "Who will help me put this bread into the oven to bake?" asked the Little Red Hen.

"Not I!" said the lamb.
"Not I!" said the cat.
"Not I!" said the pig.

"Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The kitchen filled with the delicious scent of baking bread, and the other animals came to see what was happening. The Little Red Hen took the warm, crusty loaf out of the oven, and set it on the table. "Who will help me eat this fresh, tasty bread?" asked the Little Red Hen.

"I will!" said the lamb.
"I will!" said the cat.
"I will!" said the pig.

"No, you will not," said the Little Red Hen. "You didn't help me plant it, or water it, or harvest it, or mill it, or bake it. I shall eat it myself!" And so she did.

"Oh me!" said the lamb.
"Oh my!" said the cat.
"Oh me, oh my!" said the pig.

The next time the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat, the lamb planted it in the rich, brown soil, the cat watered it carefully every day, and the pig harvested the wheat when it had grown tall and strong. When the dough was baked, together the animals made hot chocolate and ate the fresh, warm bread. It was delicious! The animals lived happily ever after, cooperating and helping every day.

 

[jackelgull]

That seems like an idealized version of Ayn Rand's message, which wants to screw over labor in favor of businesses and the innovators.