Ayn Rand, Objectivism, Atlas Shrugged, et al.

As an Atlas Shrugged survivor, one of the things I found interesting about it is that most of the "bad guys" aren't really the poor (whom she doesn't care either way about), but rather crony capitalists manipulating the government to dole out favors to themselves.
 
My introduction to Rand's brand if libertarian ideal, aka Objectivism was through the work of her protege Terry Goodkind. Anyone unfortunately acquainted with the pile of garbage he wrote, The Sword of Truth series, will understand why that turned me off of the philosophy.

I've never read Goodkind, but I've heard horror stories about his works, which are, so far as I know, Ayn Rand + a landfill's worth of fantasy cliches.

I feel great sorrow for the suffering you must have went through.
 
I've never been much of a fan of Ayn Rand, so I was a little surprised to see her name in the Blackwell Companion series. Evidently their very newest publication (to be published March 2015).

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1405186844.html

Right there beside names such as Descartes, Wittgenstein et al. The editors of the volume are from Rutgers and Boston University professors. Oh well. Like it or not, perhaps Rand's star is in ascension.

EDIT: Maybe Blackwell will do an edition on L. Ron. Hubbard next. :blush:
 
Before I contribute to this discussion, would you kindly explain Objectivism to me first?
 
Oh well. Like it or not, perhaps Rand's star is in ascension.
I'll first see an inter-religious meeting between the Catholic Church and the Jedi Order.

Atlas Shrugged and Star Wars are both nice fairytales (though the latter holds a higher quality than the former, even with the addition of episodes I through III). But as soon as one starts to apply their "philosophies" in the real world, they quickly show their deficiencies.

Before I contribute to this discussion, would you kindly explain Objectivism to me first?
In short: "Screw you, I got mine!"

A kinder reading of Rand would have it that if everyone acted in their own egoistic self-interest, everyone would be better off. Such a reading would need to ignore all the gaping holes in the theory however.
 
1 question.

If public funds are an abomination, does this mean a society where the unfit are left to suffer? Disclaimer: charity won't be sufficient by lightyears.


You don't actually know such a thing, especially considering how much the economy would improve without government control. Mind you, I have libertarainism in mind, not objectivism. libertarianism doesn't necessarily say everyone should act only in self-interest, it only says that no aggression should occur against people or their property. So, in a libertarian society, charity can (and I say, should) be highly encouraged. In Objectivism, its kind of a bad thing.
It just happens to reinforce and espouse libertarian ideals

It's coincidental you see

libertarianism is an ideology that wants to massively shrink or entirely eliminate the government. However, as such it doesn't say much else beyond that, certainly not anything telling you what non-violent lifestyle you should prefer. Individual libertarians have all sorts of opinions on such matters.

Objectivism is much more of a total life philosophy.

As an Atlas Shrugged survivor, one of the things I found interesting about it is that most of the "bad guys" aren't really the poor (whom she doesn't care either way about), but rather crony capitalists manipulating the government to dole out favors to themselves.

Hmm...
 
The ending would also fit a soviet children's book praising collectivized agriculture.
The hen should pay the other animals a fraction of their labor's worth to work the farm, and then sell the bread at a huge profit.
 
The hen should stop being a passive-aggressive git.

If she knew she was never going to allow the other animals to enjoy her bread then she shouldn't have offered it.
 
You don't actually know such a thing, especially considering how much the economy would improve without government control.
You don't actually know the economy would improve without government control. Except if you mean improve like it did in 2008, where it did improve for a select bunch of people, and crashed for most.

And do you actually think that when people complain they have to pay $100 in taxes, they would dish out the same amount to charity when those taxes are gone? And when charity has to take over from the government to take care of those who are in need, it will become just as bloated and bureacratic as the government. The enourmous downside is that in time of crisis, people will donate less. In time of crisis people need donations harder than ever. So you created a situation where there will be less funds available from an already greatly diminished amount when they are needed most.

Frankly put: stating: charity will handle it, and justifying it with: because the economy will improve, really isn't supporting anything at all for 2 reasons. 1. You will first need to have an argument why the economy will improve, and 2. the amount donated to charity will be highly instable. I'd rather have a more secure safety-net for those in need than: if you want your kids to eat, cross your fingers there will be some donations mate.

Finally, calling it control is dishonest, because it isn't control by a long shot. Call it regulation. If there's anything that 2008 also showed us, it's that the government isn't in control at all. But the corporations who do what they are supposed to do: maximize their profits. Which is fine, it's expected.
 
The hen should stop being a passive-aggressive git.

If she knew she was never going to allow the other animals to enjoy her bread then she shouldn't have offered it.

Yeah.

And was the hen morbidly obese and developed type 2 diabetes after eating all that bread?

The greedy pig hen!
 
I wish we'd stop calling Randianism "Objectivism". The name was Rand indulging her ego, there's no need for anybody else to repeat it like it's actually a useful description of her philosophy.
 
libertarianism is an ideology that wants to massively shrink or entirely eliminate the government. However, as such it doesn't say much else beyond that, certainly not anything telling you what non-violent lifestyle you should prefer. Individual libertarians have all sorts of opinions on such matters.

Sounds like "libertarians" are looking for magic solutions to all the world's problems. Just reduce taxes and let corporations do what they want and everything will be fine? Maybe I'm wrong but this sounds incredibly naïve to me.

Government is probably the only defense people have against large corporations. Unfortunately corporations are also good at manipulating government. However, doing away with government would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. It would leave us completely defenseless against predatory corporations, at least until the corporations start to lose money and start calling for government bailouts again.
 
considering how much the economy would improve without government control.

Is this one of the fairytale parts of the movement people are talking about?

If not, what you are basing it on?
 
Sounds like "libertarians" are looking for magic solutions to all the world's problems. Just reduce taxes and let corporations do what they want and everything will be fine? Maybe I'm wrong but this sounds incredibly naïve to me.

Government is probably the only defense people have against large corporations. Unfortunately corporations are also good at manipulating government. However, doing away with government would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. It would leave us completely defenseless against predatory corporations, at least until the corporations start to lose money and start calling for government bailouts again.

Corporations are really big and powerful, so lets create a legal monopoly on force, that will really keep power and abuses in check....
 
Corporations are really big and powerful, so lets create a legal monopoly on force, that will really keep power and abuses in check....

Instead of being against any and all forms of government, why not be against bailouts and other scandals against the American people by corporations. Being against government seems like a copout (unless you are also against corporations). Are you against corporations also? Or is government the only obstacle to utopia?
 
Corporations are really big and powerful, so lets create a legal monopoly on force, that will really keep power and abuses in check....

If you want to live under East India Company rule that's all you, dude.
 
Instead of being against any and all forms of government, why not be against bailouts and other scandals against the American people by corporations. Being against government seems like a copout (unless you are also against corporations). Are you against corporations also? Or is government the only obstacle to utopia?

I'm not a huge fan of the modern corporation. People can organize themselves however they want, of course. But limited liability is a serious problem, bailouts are a serious problem, etc. That said, bailouts and limited liability are far from my only problems with government. But they are real problems. Licensing and regulation that make it difficult to compete is another issue. There are tons of other issues, both economic and non-economic.

"government" is a really vague term. Some form of governance is inevitable. I oppose the monopoly state.

Also, there is no "utopia." I am not saying an anarcho-capitalist society would be perfect, only that it would be far better than what we have. Human nature still sucks. Giving some humans (with said sucky human nature) a monopoly on force sucks more.
 
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