General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Don't even get me started. 
See my comments in the UN. I have to be at least semi-civil there
See my comments in the UN. I have to be at least semi-civil there
BABE resigning?
- Thread starter General_W
- Start date
donsig
Low level intermediary
Posting some thoughts here before saying any more in the UN. There are some interesting ideas being tossed around about what would happen to the former BABE lands if Wotan retires. I don't think we can separate the islands from the main landmass. The eleven tile islands are important here. Doesn't FREE have two of them? We don't yet know what resources lie hidden on these islands - the one near BABEland may be very important to some team someday.
We also have to realize that any agreement we make concerning splitting that island will in effect be only a treaty that could be broken.
We also have to realize that any agreement we make concerning splitting that island will in effect be only a treaty that could be broken.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
I don't know Donsig - I think any agreement on dealing with BABE's abandoned lands could be considered an addition to the ruleset, and just as binding as the rules against reloading, for example.
As for the 11 tile Islands – I think they should certainly remain up-for grabs. Realistically, that just cuts GONG out of having one… which is fine with me. They probably don't care that much anyway, in their race to cultural domination.
Trying to place limits on what can be done with the 11tile islands would severely limit the strategic interests of this game.
As for the 11 tile Islands – I think they should certainly remain up-for grabs. Realistically, that just cuts GONG out of having one… which is fine with me. They probably don't care that much anyway, in their race to cultural domination.
Trying to place limits on what can be done with the 11tile islands would severely limit the strategic interests of this game.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
What gets me is that Babe basically quit WHILE THEY WERE WINNING!!!
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
It is hard to believe.
It's not like their little war didn't produce results. The kept Saber busy spamming out units. Knocked us into a distant last place, and captured Subcommittee Island.
They're pretty clearly beyond reason, imho. I just want the nightmare to end. We really should have let them quit back when they couldn't invade Saber. Oh well.
I just hope we don't repeat the mistake of begging them to stay in a 3rd time.
It's not like their little war didn't produce results. The kept Saber busy spamming out units. Knocked us into a distant last place, and captured Subcommittee Island.
They're pretty clearly beyond reason, imho. I just want the nightmare to end. We really should have let them quit back when they couldn't invade Saber. Oh well.
I just hope we don't repeat the mistake of begging them to stay in a 3rd time.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Well, I don't see any way that will happen.
We cannot afford to not get SubCom island back, so hostilities will recommence, at which point Wotan will simply retire from the game. So it has to get solved.
We cannot afford to not get SubCom island back, so hostilities will recommence, at which point Wotan will simply retire from the game. So it has to get solved.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Exactly the point I'm trying to make in the UN - without saying exactly what we're planning.
Not that it probably matter that much anyway.
We already told BABE what we were going to do in our last letter to them
I'm sure Saber has figgured it out.
We've told FREE
So really - being honest in the UN will only inform GONG of something they didn't already know.
but anyway... probably best to be coy for as long as we can get away with it.
Not that it probably matter that much anyway.
We already told BABE what we were going to do in our last letter to them
I'm sure Saber has figgured it out.
We've told FREE
So really - being honest in the UN will only inform GONG of something they didn't already know.
but anyway... probably best to be coy for as long as we can get away with it.
donsig
Low level intermediary
I'm still not ready to say any more in the UN thread. But how does GONG suffer the most if BABE quits? Is that because GONG is allied to BABE? Is it because someone else gets to colonize a second continent which will make that team so powerful it can't lose? What am I missing guys?
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
GONG and BABE are pretty obviously allied, from their historical tech-swapping - carrying on to the present (since they apparently just traded Metalurgy)
At the least, they have a tech alliance. Chamnix & Saber are probably paying even closer attention, as they're still looking for an ally - and Dutchfire has mentioned a few times that they've only been able to get an odd deal or two out of GONG... = GONG is working with BABE.
At the least, they have a tech alliance. Chamnix & Saber are probably paying even closer attention, as they're still looking for an ally - and Dutchfire has mentioned a few times that they've only been able to get an odd deal or two out of GONG... = GONG is working with BABE.
donsig
Low level intermediary
SO, how do they manage to work together on trades at least as good as we do with FREE if Wotan is really only half-heartedly playing for five minutes a turn? Another dumb question, if SABER wants a partner and GONG loses BABE, wouldn't it just be natural for SABER and GONG to partner up?
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Good question.
And I would think so. Hence I was a little supprised to see Chamnix speak up against it... since they want an Ally and all.
Oh well - we'll see where it all sorts out.
And I would think so. Hence I was a little supprised to see Chamnix speak up against it... since they want an Ally and all.
Oh well - we'll see where it all sorts out.
Chamnix is nothing if not fair. Even were his team to stand to gain by Babe backing out, he's not the sort of person to keep that hidden in a public forum.
But whatever - it seems pretty clear to me that the 4 remaining non-Babe teams have to figure out a way to proceed after Babe quits. May as well do that now, so even if Wotan continues to play for a few months, we'll have a groundwork in place. This will also give the 4 non-Babe teams a chance to plan ahead for the eventuality.
But whatever - it seems pretty clear to me that the 4 remaining non-Babe teams have to figure out a way to proceed after Babe quits. May as well do that now, so even if Wotan continues to play for a few months, we'll have a groundwork in place. This will also give the 4 non-Babe teams a chance to plan ahead for the eventuality.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
on all points. Spot on.AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
well, I think that if we are thinking about just asking BABE to abandon the game and not declare everything they have offlimits, we have to come to a decision now - because people will start planning for change.
There are so many crazy, far more reliable players out there in the forums - can't we find a sinlge person to play this one for the BABEs just alone? He can still do negotiations, keep (or drop) treaties (if he wants to).
We don't expect any top diplomatic actions from BABE anyway (maybe GONG does?), it would be a game I would even like to play if I was not that involved with my beloved Council. We just need a slightly intelligent, dedicated play that does not slow the game down as Wotan does.
How about looking for such a player in the ordinary PBEM-forums?
We don't expect any top diplomatic actions from BABE anyway (maybe GONG does?), it would be a game I would even like to play if I was not that involved with my beloved Council. We just need a slightly intelligent, dedicated play that does not slow the game down as Wotan does.
How about looking for such a player in the ordinary PBEM-forums?
sirdanilot
BBcode owns in sigs!
I think BABE should be kicked out of the game if they don't want to play anymore. Just my two cents from a very limited point of view. And let everyone be able to colonize their lands.
I've been getting too reactionary in the UN thread. I hope I haven't cast a dark shadow over the rest of The Council because of this.... but I find it very difficult to hold my tongue in these situations.
Donsig has been a rational counter to my heated posts - Thanks for that!
I think I will keep silent in the UN for a couple of days.
Donsig has been a rational counter to my heated posts - Thanks for that!
I think I will keep silent in the UN for a couple of days.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
For what it's worth:
Wotan should probably NOT be feeling all the heat from us. He is the one who stuck around.
This is the list of BABE's who are not participating:
BCLG100
Whomp
Emp. Killyouall
Robi D
socralynnek
Butterball
Vind2
Tubby Rower
DaveShack
Beorn-eL-Feared
Kickbooti
gmaharriet
ThERat
Greebley
Smart
Own
These are the ones who have abandonded the game. Not Wotan.
Wotan should probably NOT be feeling all the heat from us. He is the one who stuck around.
This is the list of BABE's who are not participating:
BCLG100
Whomp
Emp. Killyouall
Robi D
socralynnek
Butterball
Vind2
Tubby Rower
DaveShack
Beorn-eL-Feared
Kickbooti
gmaharriet
ThERat
Greebley
Smart
Own
These are the ones who have abandonded the game. Not Wotan.
Good point, AT. Which is why I called out Whomp and Beorn on this very point a couple of months ago, when the game was stalled while the Deathmatch proceeded at 2 turns / day 
The thing that makes it even more frustrating for me is that DaveShack and Whomp have both been promoted to Moderators at CivFanatics.com since I first got involved with mtdg's. They set a bad example by neglecting to participate in a team they have signed up for.
The thing that makes it even more frustrating for me is that DaveShack and Whomp have both been promoted to Moderators at CivFanatics.com since I first got involved with mtdg's. They set a bad example by neglecting to participate in a team they have signed up for.
donsig
Low level intermediary
Well, I think we've made some progress in that thread thanks to CommandoBob. I think it is time for the Council to talk to Wotan again. We could offer peace for SCI or phony war for x turns for his promise to return SCI to us if he retires BABE. An alternative would be to throw the gauntlet down and challenge him to bring his massive invasion forces to our beaches. I'm not sure which approach would be best. Let's transfer this part of the discussion to the BABE embassy thread.
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