Bachmann is concerned about the rise of the SOVIET UNION

[Tee Kay]

And of course some of the most prominent early Bolshevik leaders were Jewish.

 

[RedRalph]

Almost, not quite

Khruschev was actually Russian....by a distance of 3 km, but was pretty much Ukrainian in his mannerisms and lifestyles. He didn't get the sobriquet "Butcher of Ukraine" for nothing.

Andropov was of Don Cossack/Volga German parentage, not exactly "Russian"

I could also through in Mikoyan, Voroshilov, Kaganovich.

I mean, if we're being strict here Stalin wasn't even Georgian!

I'm disappointed in you, Ralph, Chernenko is a very VERY Ukrainian name. He was technically "Russian" (born int he empire) but to a Ukrainian father.

Parentage means nothing, where you grow up and live is what counts. My son may have an English ma but I TELL YOU HE IS ALL IRISH!!! Seriously though, you do consider Obama American, don't you?

 

[RedRalph]

And of course some of the most prominent early Bolshevik leaders were Jewish.

Irrelevant, my good man

 

[amadeus]

I don't think the "USSR was basically Russia" argument is unsound since most of the territory of the Soviet Union was of the old Russian empire. It wasn't like the Ukraine, Georgia, etc. were all separate countries (though the Baltics managed to swing about 20-25 years of independence.)

 

[Theige]

At least 3 Soviet leaders were not from the RSFSR, around 50% of the USSR was ethnically Russian, there were 50 million Ukrainians, and over 100 ethnic groups lived in the USSR, many of the most important Soviet Statemen were not Russians, and the most ardent communists were not Russians.

Calling the USSR "Russian" is a cognitive disassociation by the west, especially Americans, who seek to draw a clear line throughout the history of the Russias, and direct attention away from the fact that the USSR was both a Republic and a Confederacy, since it might have too much in common with the US, despite being much more ethnically and culturally diverse.

Stalin becoming leader was not "liberal", it was a foundation of the USSR, where, as a dictatorship of the proletariat, ethnicity and nationality are moot within the concept of the Soviets.
The Leninist/Trotskyite ideal of Exporting the Revolution is a key example of this.

I'm not going to argue about the "Republican" nature of the USSR, but more "ethnically and culturally diverse"?

 

[RedRalph]

I'm not going to argue about the "Republican" nature of the USSR, but more "ethnically and culturally diverse"?

Hmmm, he may have a point actually

 

[Tycho Brahe]

Her idol is Ronald Reagan. She copys him for all hes got.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Seriously though, you do consider Obama American, don't you?

Well, I want to say no since he's a lying politician, and so against the American people, but that's also a lot of other people.

I don't think Obama is in any sense more unAmerican than other politicians...

 

[nonconformist]

I'm not going to argue about the "Republican" nature of the USSR, but more "ethnically and culturally diverse"?

I stand by it; the US is 72% white, and has around 4 races and and dozens of ethnicities.

The USSR had enclaves of Jews, Muslims, slavs, Tartars, Mongols, Cossacks, Cetniks, Baltics, Inuits, Tukics, Roma.

In fact, there were over 100 unique ethnic groups residing within the USSR, over 200 languages and dialects (18 of which had over 1 million speakers) and dozens of religions.

 

[nonconformist]

I don't think the "USSR was basically Russia" argument is unsound since most of the territory of the Soviet Union was of the old Russian empire. It wasn't like the Ukraine, Georgia, etc. were all separate countries (though the Baltics managed to swing about 20-25 years of independence.)

Oh, I know what you're saying, but it's as big a mistake to identify "The Russian Federation" as being the child, or grandchild of the "Russian Empire", though maybe slightly more culturally sound?

 

[ParkCungHee]

Parentage means nothing, where you grow up and live is what counts. My son may have an English ma but I TELL YOU HE IS ALL IRISH!!! Seriously though, you do consider Obama American, don't you?

I suppose this says a lot about Ireland, and it's capacity for assimilation (and also it's rejection of alternative identities), but I suppose the better example would be those "Irish" guys born and raised in Glasgow.
You may say these people were raised "in Russia" but that's a matter of opinion and dispute.

 

[nonconformist]

Plus Ireland has a population of like 4 million, so isn't really comparable.

 

[Theige]

I stand by it; the US is 72% white, and has around 4 races and and dozens of ethnicities.

The USSR had enclaves of Jews, Muslims, slavs, Tartars, Mongols, Cossacks, Cetniks, Baltics, Inuits, Tukics, Roma.

In fact, there were over 100 unique ethnic groups residing within the USSR, over 200 languages and dialects (18 of which had over 1 million speakers) and dozens of religions.

Why do you refer to "race" in the United States, then refer to "ethnicity" in the USSR?

 

[RedRalph]

I suppose this says a lot about Ireland, and it's capacity for assimilation (and also it's rejection of alternative identities), but I suppose the better example would be those "Irish" guys born and raised in Glasgow.
You may say these people were raised "in Russia" but that's a matter of opinion and dispute.

Plus Ireland has a population of like 4 million, so isn't really comparable.

Both true, but I do have a pretty good perspective on this, my family being as diverse as it is. Of course, as ParkCungHee says, it's a matter of opinion.

 

[Cutlass]

I stand by it; the US is 72% white, and has around 4 races and and dozens of ethnicities.

The USSR had enclaves of Jews, Muslims, slavs, Tartars, Mongols, Cossacks, Cetniks, Baltics, Inuits, Tukics, Roma.

In fact, there were over 100 unique ethnic groups residing within the USSR, over 200 languages and dialects (18 of which had over 1 million speakers) and dozens of religions.

Here they are:

* Number of languages spoken in the U.S.: 311.
* Those languages indigenous to the U.S: 162
* Those that are immigrant languages: 149
* There are 14 million households in the United States where English is not the primary language.

http://www.gadling.com/2007/09/30/how-many-languages-are-spoken-in-the-u-s-exactly/

 

[nonconformist]

Why do you refer to "race" in the United States, then refer to "ethnicity" in the USSR?

Because of cultural differences;
America has a wider range of "races" because of its past with regards to slavery and such, and to a certain degree immigration, whereas the USSR was much more heterogenous without this background.

Both true, but I do have a pretty good perspective on this, my family being as diverse as it is. Of course, as ParkCungHee says, it's a matter of opinion.

Does your missus form the entire Jewish population of Ireland?

Is your house known as the Derry Ghetto?

@Cutlass-how many of them have a significant population of speakers?

 

[RedRalph]

Does your missus form the entire Jewish population of Ireland?

Is your house known as the Derry Ghetto?

@Cutlass-how many of them have a significant population of speakers?

My missus is not Jewish and I don't live in Derry.


what the hell are you talking about?

 

[nonconformist]

I thought you had Jewish family?

I don't know where you live, Derry was a good enough choice, if I were trolling, I'dha called it "londonderry"

 

[Traitorfish]

At least 3 Soviet leaders were not from the RSFSR, around 50% of the USSR was ethnically Russian, there were 50 million Ukrainians, and over 100 ethnic groups lived in the USSR, many of the most important Soviet Statemen were not Russians, and the most ardent communists were not Russians.

Calling the USSR "Russian" is a cognitive disassociation by the west, especially Americans, who seek to draw a clear line throughout the history of the Russias, and direct attention away from the fact that the USSR was both a Republic and a Confederacy, since it might have too much in common with the US, despite being much more ethnically and culturally diverse.

Stalin becoming leader was not "liberal", it was a foundation of the USSR, where, as a dictatorship of the proletariat, ethnicity and nationality are moot within the concept of the Soviets.
The Leninist/Trotskyite ideal of Exporting the Revolution is a key example of this.

Although at this point you hit a number of speed-bumps as the internationalism of Marx and Lenin collides head-first with the Russian chauvinism of Stalin, with his successors settling for a heavily-Russified "Soviet" nationalism. The early internationalism of the Bolsheviks didn't really outlast the 1920s.

Why do you refer to "race" in the United States, then refer to "ethnicity" in the USSR?

Race is a particular sociological construction which was of only very limited relevance when discussing the ethnic diversity of the USSR.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Both true, but I do have a pretty good perspective on this, my family being as diverse as it is. Of course, as ParkCungHee says, it's a matter of opinion.

That wasn't quite what I meant! Not that this isn't a matter of dispute, but what I meant was Kruschev being born "in Russia" is a matter of dispute. He was 3km from the border, and the border can be quite wrong in some people's mind.
Plus, Russia compared to Ireland or most small countries allows for many more ethnic enclaves.