Barbarossa: The War in the East 1941-1945

[Adler17]

Moin Helsinki1,
There is a "patch" somewhere around here which allows to play the game. However there is an alternative: Go in the units folder and rename the units into English. This means copy a Kosake, rename the copy into Cossack AND in this new folder also the ini file! This means you need much space but so you´re able to play the game.

Viel Spaß,

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

absolute sad,

Thank you for the interesting report.

I have taken note on your suggestions for
improvements to version 1.2.

Yes, GML:s should have new names.

As you point out research also should be
reworked.

Rocoteh

 

[The Omega]

Foudn out what happened to my game. When I donwloaded the scenario, all terrain files that weren't in the scenarios terrain folder were deleted from the normal civ terrain folder.

 

[The Omega]

Foudn out what happened to my game. When I donwloaded the scenario, all terrain files that weren't in the scenarios terrain folder were deleted from the normal civ terrain folder.

No wait, I lie. Every type of terrain in the scenario's terrain folder has been deleted, not all the ones not in it.

 

[Klyden]

Some leaders:

German:

Hoth, Guderian, Von Bock, Von Leeb, Von Rundstedt, Paulus, Kleist, Von Manstein, Von Kluge, Model, Schorner, Kuchler, Busch, Lindemann, Wohler,

Russian:

Zhukov, Konev, Vatutin, Rokossovsky, Yeremenko, Golikov, Malinovsky, Popov, Govorov, Meretskov, Petrov, Rokossovsky,

Rumania:

Antonescu, Dumitrescu, Ciuperca

 

[Lord_all_Mighty]

Sarevok, not to seem pushy or impatient, were you going to attempt to place the updates in a seperate download file?

 

[Klyden]

Russian play testing continued:

T5: Turku falls and 2 more panzer and TD units die in the middle. 10 Hungarian infantry advance towards Chernovsty. I regroup in the south and get ready to carve up some more of Rumania. The Germans have air superiority in the middle of the map while I seem to have it around the edges. The Germans continue to punish cities north of the swamps and also my forward positions in the south.

T6: Germans continue to bomb cities and shell Brest-Litovsk. Infantry advances towards Riga and around the Slonim area. It appears AGS has no intentions of advancing any more and either the troops have been redeployed or stand on the defensive. The Germans are mounting pressure towards Riga and in the plains in the north. The Finns push in the middle with a few units while the Russians resume their advance in the north and consolidate in the south to get ready to push on to Tampere. I change my production priorities as the tank brigades have not worked very well (not many 2 pip units do) and will work on some fighters to deal with the Germans until something else better can be built. I start having workers clear some swamps and also some forests here and there to make some cities more productive. My second great leader arrives in the south and I form up a nasty mech corps to use against the Rumanians.

T7: Hungarians pull back from Chernovsty despite pounding it to pieces with aircraft. There were about 6 mech/tank divisions waiting on them when they pulled back, but those got shot up by the aircraft pretty good. The Germans continue to pressure the Riga area, moving up artillery, AA guns and more infantry. Brest-Litovsk continues to hold with 2 bombed out units able to turn the assault of a equally damaged German infantry unit. They could take the city if they could find a few tanks, but have shown no inclination to do so. The Rumanians shell and bomb my mech corps pretty good and obviously have a lot of troops defending in the city. I have several artillery units in range, but don't know if I have enough to take the city. My tanks and other units continue to get pounded in the cities, so will probably move them out and let them heal slowly so I can then make my assault. The Rumanians are proving a tougher nut to crack than I had anticipated. I also start working on the Barbarossa advancement. 4 Turns with a negative 79. I still have over 1k in the bank for cash, so figure it is ok. I wish I had seen the Guards infantry earlier, but oh well.

 

[Rocoteh]

Klyden,

Thank you.
I am reading your reports with great interest.

It will be interesting to see when the turning point arrives.
Probably it will be some time after Soviet have
the Tank Corps available.

Rocoteh

 

[emzie]

Still playing as the Romanians.

The most interesting thing to watch is the AI vs. AI: the Germans have no chance. In the beginning, the AI pulled back its front-line units in defense of its cities -- the Germans can't afford to do that; unfortunately, the AI can't know this. It's only turn 44 and the Soviets have taken Warsaw, Posen and Lodz. They've held Warsaw for eight turns now. The Germans still hold Soviet territory to Kiev in the south and all of Hungary (Soviets took it, Germans took it back). This won't last though.

I'm holding on to a fair bit of Soviet territory myself -- I've more than doubled my starting size. I have to concentrate on defense alone for now though. I don't have the forces to spare to really take another city. There's a stack of 42 Guard Divisions headed towards Krasnoperekopsk.

FYI:


Soviets

27 artillery
382 infantry (92 soviet infantry, 233 guards divisions (!), 57 city garrisons)
61 Tanks
14 Soviet Mot. Rifle Div.

I didn't write down air force numbers... they're not too strong though.

I do remember 20-something Yak-3s and a handful of IL-1s and SB-2s

I'm not sure how they're doing on unit support (12 per city might be too high). I keep checking on where the Soviets are technology wise (okay, I cheated to do this... I don't have the money to spare)... and they've haven’t shown the need to slow down in advancement -- they’re way below unit-support maximum.


The failure of the Germans can be attributed to AI though... not a stacked Soviet force. But this does show how a human could dominate the limited AI

But I do think the best way to play this game though would be two different .biq's.


Hope this insight helps. I really dislike finishing maps I haven’t got a chance of winning in... on to Germany....

 

[Rocoteh]

augurey,

Yes, this report really helps!

Thank you.

I think the report shows that play-balance should
not be shifted more in favour of Soviet.

The future is probably with two biqs.

Rocoteh

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Hmmm.... I remember that in Civ2, I believe the Red Front scenario was done by quite literally forcing the AI's units through the script language to push through certain key points in the Russian defenses...

Would there be some way to compel the Germans to chuck everything at the Russians? Are there any scenario features that compel the AI to act more aggressively? Like a Princess unit or a King or something? Actually if you put a barbarian camp on the far right behind all the Russian cities the Germans will be across the Urals in about four turns...

 

[waTTe]

First a big THX to the scenario-designers Rocoteh and Saverok!

Great work - one could say: as ususal!

I´ve played the scenario for a while now, some turns with first version, now with the new one.

I didn´t post something up to now, for the same reason I stoped giving feedback to the great war: lack of time. I only manage about 5 turns in week with such bid scens. But its still much fun and maybe some of my short comments are usefull for you:

- How about some more defensive starting units for rumanians and hugarians?
Both lost a city to russians in first turn.

- It is possible to make german air-defense stronger or "likelier" (sorry lacking the words)? I´m in week 34, playing germans on emperor, and I´ve not shot down any russian plane till now. About every third turn there´s a massive airraid by russians and every attack is unpunished , although there are plenty of 88 AAs and control fighters.

- The "sturmgeschütze" or anti-tank-units should really be changed, I agree with AKauhanen: "Tank Destroyers should be defencive/support-tanks " with a high 0? or 1 range bombardement and a middle def value.

- making two scenarios is a fine idea, cause I think the soviets are still too weak. I´ve ignored the suggestions of being quick and agressive and I´m advancing slowly, focus on protecting my motorised core troops. Despite this there was no real danger till now and I took 10 enemy cities till week 34. Still waiting for the counterstrike. Maybe some more stationary defence-troops and some mobile troops positioned in a way that they would arive in 5th or 6th turn at the front (turkey-border?) maybe would do this.

Well please continue you work on finishing this scenario to perfection - you are already near

Last some hints for Helsinki1:

Adler17 is true, there a patch, that allows playing englisg scenarios with the german versions. If you cant find it here, look at http://www.civforum.de/index.php I think its the origin, but I´m too lazy to search it.
Maybe ther´s also another easy way:
I personally play with an english civ vanilla version and a german conquest version for which I chose the english installation - I had no probs till now. So a english reinstalation might do it for you.

 

[Sarevok]

So should we do it like ACW? 1 German and 1 Soviet BIC?

 

[waTTe]

YES - I think that would be the best way to provide both sites with a really challenging scenario-experience

The conquest version of ACW is a good example for this.

 

[Sarevok]

YES - I think that would be the best way to provide both sites with a really challenging scenario-experience

The conquest version of ACW is a good example for this.

alright.... I hate the AI, but now we mush make it work...

 

[Rocoteh]

Hmmm.... I remember that in Civ2, I believe the Red Front scenario was done by quite literally forcing the AI's units through the script language to push through certain key points in the Russian defenses...

Would there be some way to compel the Germans to chuck everything at the Russians? Are there any scenario features that compel the AI to act more aggressively? Like a Princess unit or a King or something? Actually if you put a barbarian camp on the far right behind all the Russian cities the Germans will be across the Urals in about four turns...

AI is really a problem!

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

So should we do it like ACW? 1 German and 1 Soviet BIC?

Yes.

In fact I think I was the first to use the idea
when I launched ACW C3C 3.9 a year ago.


Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

First a big THX to the scenario-designers Rocoteh and Saverok!

Great work - one could say: as ususal!

I´ve played the scenario for a while now, some turns with first version, now with the new one.

I didn´t post something up to now, for the same reason I stoped giving feedback to the great war: lack of time. I only manage about 5 turns in week with such bid scens. But its still much fun and maybe some of my short comments are usefull for you:

- How about some more defensive starting units for rumanians and hugarians?
Both lost a city to russians in first turn.

- It is possible to make german air-defense stronger or "likelier" (sorry lacking the words)? I´m in week 34, playing germans on emperor, and I´ve not shot down any russian plane till now. About every third turn there´s a massive airraid by russians and every attack is unpunished , although there are plenty of 88 AAs and control fighters.

- The "sturmgeschütze" or anti-tank-units should really be changed, I agree with AKauhanen: "Tank Destroyers should be defencive/support-tanks " with a high 0? or 1 range bombardement and a middle def value.

- making two scenarios is a fine idea, cause I think the soviets are still too weak. I´ve ignored the suggestions of being quick and agressive and I´m advancing slowly, focus on protecting my motorised core troops. Despite this there was no real danger till now and I took 10 enemy cities till week 34. Still waiting for the counterstrike. Maybe some more stationary defence-troops and some mobile troops positioned in a way that they would arive in 5th or 6th turn at the front (turkey-border?) maybe would do this.

Well please continue you work on finishing this scenario to perfection - you are already near

Last some hints for Helsinki1:

Adler17 is true, there a patch, that allows playing englisg scenarios with the german versions. If you cant find it here, look at http://www.civforum.de/index.php I think its the origin, but I´m too lazy to search it.
Maybe ther´s also another easy way:
I personally play with an english civ vanilla version and a german conquest version for which I chose the english installation - I had no probs till now. So a english reinstalation might do it for you.

waTTe,

Thank you,

More defensive units to Romania and Hungary.
With a 2-biqs solution I am condering to give the control
of Romania and Hungary to the German player.
It would then be a "house-rule" that the human player
only produces Hungarian and Romanian units in these nations.

Sarevok,

What do you think?

On German air-defense.

If AA-units are ineffective their AA-values should be increased.
With regard to air-units the chance for interception should
be changed from 50% to 100%.

Tank-destroyers.
I think a better solution than the current one can be found.

Soviet to weak?

I think version 1.1 should be up for at least 5-6 weeks
so playtest-reports can be accumulated.
After that time I think the picture concerning
play-balance should be clear.


Rocoteh

 

[Adler17]

Soviet airplanes of the start of ww2 were outdated and flown by not so good pilots. Also they needed modern aiming technology. They had a painted circle for this on the screen when they flew. So a hit was just luck. But when they got modern vesirs by Britain and the US this changed dramatically. So I suggest to make the Russian planes at first only conscript with a low attack rate of the fighters. So the high losses should be simulated. As well I suggest to make a new technology which allows them to research modern planes. This should simulate the British help.

Adler

 

[Pfeffersack]

On the subject air defense for Germany...I disagree.Ok, with 1.00 it was problem, but after adding the SPAA in 1.1 ist is just fine IMO. I shot down most of the SUs bombers within the first turns (the trick is to move the SPAA around and try to predict where the airstrikes will happen [often the fresh conquered cities or those with corps units in].And figthers also do a good job.In my experience they all hit quite often, especially if you amass upto 4 AA on a tile.Moreover if you progress aggressively you will destroy a decent number of planes by conquering cities) and after ca. 10 turns there was hardly any left.Now in turn 30 they have only around 40 fighters left and they don't build any bombers - I guess there cities are busy with building land units and some fighters.Bombers should be considered as improvement-produced for the AI, too.

Increasing the interception chance...sounds good, since 50% feels a bit low.It means that sending in fighters for destroying or at least "absorbing" the enemy interceptors is even more important.Since the AI doesn't use this strategy it makes air defense a bit easier for the human player.