Benjamin Netanyahu wants War and Mitt Romney

[Archbob]

While I agree that many sides don't want peace. That's not the same as saying that no one does. But in order for anyone who wants peace to pursue it, others have to as well. And in Israel's case, they have made it clear that they will accept no peace short of driving all of the Palestinians out. Which is just unacceptable to any other group in the region. You would be right in then stating that the reciprocal goal is clearly the objective of several of the other powers in the area. But even that does not mean that no lasting peace is a possibility, if one of the sides is willing to work for peace. Clearly Israel refuses to even consider peace. And that leaves nothing other than a permanent state of low grade war.

This is nothing new, that area of the world has been in low-grade war for thousands of years. Before Israel was established the various muslim factions were killing each other. The Israeli stance isn't any different from the Islamic one of driving Israel into the sea. Lasting peace there really at this point is not a possibility. Israel is the only modernized country there, everyone else wants to live in the 14th century under Sharia law.

 

[Crezth]

No we haven't

We've been isolating Iran for no good reason for ages.

Well they are a dastardly, oppressive theocratic dictatorship.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well they are a dastardly, oppressive theocratic dictatorship.

You mean far less so than Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, and UAE who are all staunch allies?

 

[Winner]

This is a case of the tail wagging the dog and it could blow up in Netanyahu's face. I hope he wises up and shuts up.

Of course it can. This game is always risky - if you too openly endorse the side which eventually loses, you're stuck with the guy you pissed off for the next four years. Which for a country as geopolitically dependent on the US as Israel can be problematic.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Of course it can. This game is always risky - if you too openly endorse the side which eventually loses, you're stuck with the guy you pissed off for the next four years. Which for a country as geopolitically dependent on the US as Israel can be problematic.

Which is why I said he needs to wise up.
Even if he gets what he wants, it could come at a high cost in other areas.

And I really think he's underestimating how big of an undertaking he is asking from us. Or maybe he does, which is why he's asking, as Israel can't do it alone. In which case, he is showing contempt for us by ignoring the human, political, economic, social and monetary costs that such an attack will invoke on the US. I can't see our country pulling off a strike without it escalating to all out war as I noted earlier.

And as long as Israel is under our nuclear umbrella (and their own), they are probably not going to be nuked.

 

[JollyRoger]

<snip>

Moderator Action: Advocating such action is in very poor taste and smacks of advocating genocide.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Crezth]

You mean far less so than Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, and UAE who are all staunch allies?

He said "no good reason" so I gave a good reason. :>

 

[Formaldehyde]

That is hardly a "good reason" to enforce such an arbitrary double standard.

Why are so many people unwilling to admit why Iran is vilified by some today? It is a modern country which is fairly secular compared to many other Muslim theocracies. It's greatest "sins" are being predominately Shia instead of Sunni along with finally being successful in forcing the US out of their own country.

 

[Winner]

<snip>

How ingenious, Herr Hitl... ehm, never mind.

 

[Crezth]

That is hardly a "good reason" to enforce such an arbitrary double standard.

You support maintaining close relations with repressive dictatorial regimes?

Why are so many people unwilling to admit why Iran is vilified by some today? It is a modern country which is fairly secular compared to many other Muslim theocracies. It's greatest "sin" is being predominately Shia instead of Sunni.

Iran is brutally repressive to its citizenry. "Fairly secular" is utterly meaningless as it is wholly, completely dominated by a religious far-right junta with zero accountability.

What few instances of liberalization you see are gradual, cultural pushback coming from a society that all but despises the tyranny it is subjected to daily.

 

[Formaldehyde]

No, I don't back the US in the least supporting and even defending such governments. Do you?

 

[Crezth]

No, I don't back the US in the least supporting and even defending such governments. Do you?

Heavens no. Hence why I think Iran being a "dastardly, oppressive theocratic dictatorship" is a pretty good reason for icing it.

 

[Archbob]

Heavens no. Hence why I think Iran being a "dastardly, oppressive theocratic dictatorship" is a pretty good reason for icing it.

Why? So a more dastardly and oppressive one can spring up in its place. You act as if we get rid of the current one, the next one that comes up will be better.

 

[Crezth]

I didn't say nothin' about no intervenin'.

Besides, your comment betrays a rather crucial misunderstanding of the Iranian revolution. It's not like Iran's culture is just destined to despotism because they're brown or Muslim or whatever.

 

[Formaldehyde]

No. It has much more to do with the actual desires of the populace, unlike so many other "dastardly, oppressive theocratic dictatorship"s which the US supports.

 

[Crezth]

I guarantee you that Iran's populace does not like being governed by an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship. The people's revolution was hijacked by the religious far right and the good people of Iran have suffered ever since.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's a weird balance. We know the Iranian leadership would also like to be more moderate, but they're afraid of the populace. An Iranian cleric just put out a bounty on the author of the Satanic Verses ... you'd think that would be illegal in Iran! But, it isn't. The leadership cannot suppress the cleric, and neither can the populace.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I guarantee you that Iran's populace does not like being governed by an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship. The people's revolution was hijacked by the religious far right and the good people of Iran have suffered ever since.

The topic has come up numerous times, and I keep posting polls showing that the current government is quite popular. Yet someone seems to still guarantee that it can't possibly be right...

Iran simply isn't as evil as so many try to falsely portray it. There are far worse countries out there to hate, many of which are friends with the US.


Link to video.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You put faith in polls in a country where the last election was rigged?

And what about the peaceful revolution that was put down violently following the rigged election?

Yes, you can count on those depending on massive government subsidies to support the government. That doesn't really say the government isn't bad/evil.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The last presidential election was one of the most closely examined elections in the past 50 years. Yet no large scale fraud which could have possibly changed the outcome was detected whatsoever.

Iran has been the victim of a massive propaganda campaign which has convinced liberals as well as conservatives.


Link to video.