George W W Mitt Bush Romney.

Meh, even with a few of the same advisors I don't think it will significantly affect foriegn policy. I really do not see an invasion of Iran happening anytime soon, nor do I see any other country which might get the same treatment. Anyway at least for Britain, anybody but Obama is best for us :D
 
Meh, even with a few of the same advisors I don't think it will significantly affect foriegn policy. I really do not see an invasion of Iran happening anytime soon, nor do I see any other country which might get the same treatment. Anyway at least for Britain, anybody but Obama is best for us :D


So you'd rather have someone who got your people killed than one who just doesn't suck up to you as much as you'd like? :crazyeye:
 
Nearly all the reasons you give for hating Obama are, to be extremely charitable, nitpicking. But you some how think it's better to be the vassal of someone who will get your people killed for no reason other than that you are expected to act like a good little mindless lackey.
 
Well given that he literally said that the entirety of palestinian culture consisted of suicide bombing, which to be honest is no different than saying "you know they all live in mudhuts and wear grass skirts in africa".

Or indeed, in the same way that one could say that czech culture entirely consists of being dominated by germans (which would be both wrong, insulting, bigoted and historically inaccurate).

When you are willing to apply the same label to those who sling "Americans are warmongers" then you can at least not by a hypocrite.

You would still be wrong in the racism claim on both counts, but consistency is a value all its own.
 
When you are willing to apply the same label to those who sling "Americans are warmongers" then you can at least not by a hypocrite.
There is quite a difference between saying "Americans are warmongers" which implies they all are, and "some Americans support warmongering", or even "the US government has supported warmongering". I can't think of a single individual who has ever stated "Americans are warmongers" in this forum. Can you?

You would still be wrong in the racism claim on both counts, but consistency is a value all its own.
Depending on the definition of racism one decides to use, there is a great deal of racism which occurs in Israel:

Racism in Israel

Racism in Israel has been experienced by both Israeli Arabs and Israeli Jews. Israel has broad anti-discrimination laws, which prohibit discrimination by both government and nongovernment entities on the basis of race, religion, and political beliefs, and prohibits incitement to racism.[1] The Israeli government and many groups within Israel have undertaken efforts to combat racism. Israel is a state-party to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, and is a signatory of the Convention against Discrimination in Education.

Some elements of the Israeli society have been described as holding discriminatory attitudes towards Mizrahi Jews. Intermarriage between Ashkenazim and Mizrahim is increasingly common in Israel, and social integration is constantly improving, though disparities persist.

While Ethiopian Jews have faced some discrimination, scholars suggested that the situation of the Ethiopian Jews as 'becoming white' and similar to that of European immigrants who arrived in the United States in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.[2]

Racism against Arabs in Israel has also been claimed in personal attitudes, the media, education, immigration rights, housing, and social life.

Existence of racism in Israel

According to Sammy Smooha, a Professor of Sociology at the University of Haifa, the answer to the question of whether racism exists in Israel depends on the definition of racism adopted. If Pierre L. van den Berghe's view is adopted, that the term racism must be restricted to beliefs that a given biological race is superior, then ethnocentrism can be found in Israel, but not racism. According to other definitions, racism is a belief that membership in a certain group, not necessarily genetic or biological, determines the qualities of individuals. By this definition, racist views are present in portions of the Israeli population.[3] Smooha adds that some Arab and Jewish writers make accusations of racism, but they use the term in a very loose way.[3]

Racism against Arabs on the part of the Israeli state and some Israeli Jews has been identified by critics in personal attitudes, the media, education, immigration rights, housing segregation, and social life. Nearly all such characterizations have been denied by the state of Israel. The Or Commission, set up to explain the October 2000 unrest in many Israeli Arab communities found,

"The state and generations of its government failed in a lack of comprehensive and deep handling of the serious problems created by the existence of a large Arab minority inside the Jewish state. Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory. The establishment did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action in order to allocate state resources in an equal manner. The state did not do enough or try hard enough to create equality for its Arab citizens or to uproot discriminatory or unjust phenomenon."[5]

According to the 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, the Israeli government had done "little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens."[6] The 2005 US Department of State report on Israel wrote: "[T]he government generally respected the human rights of its citizens; however, there were problems in some areas, including... institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country’s Arab citizens."[7] The 2010 U.S. State Department Country Report stated that Israeli law prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, and that government effectively enforced these prohibitions.[8] Former Likud MK and Minister of Defense Moshe Arens has criticized the treatment of minorities in Israel, saying that they did not bear the full obligation of Israeli citizenship, nor were they extended the full privileges of citizenship.[9]

Israel is a state-party to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. According to the 1998 Report of the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination found that the Convention "is far from fully implemented in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and that the shortfall contributes very significantly to the dangerous escalation of tension in the region.". The report positively noted the measures taken by Israel to prohibit the activities of racist political parties, the amendment of the Equal Opportunity in Employment Law, prohibiting discrimination in the labour sphere on the grounds of national ethnic origin, country of origin, beliefs, political views, political party, affiliation or age, and the Israeli efforts to reduce and eventually eradicate the economic and educational gap between the Jewish majority and the Arab minority.[10]

Polls

The Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) published reports documenting racism in Israel, and the 2007 report suggested that anti-Arab racism in the country was increasing. One analysis of the report summarized it thus: "Over two-thirds Israeli teens believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent. Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together....The report becomes even grimmer, citing the ACRI's racism poll, taken in March 2007, in which 50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into their homes."[11] The 2008 report from ACRI says the trend of increasing racism is continuing.[12] An Israeli minister charged the poll as biased and not credible.[13] The Israeli government spokesman responded that the Israeli government was "committed to fighting racism whenever it raises it ugly head and is committed to full equality to all Israeli citizens, irrespective of ethnicity, creed or background, as defined by our declaration of independence".[13] Isi Leibler of the Jerusalem Center for Public affairs argues that Israeli Jews are troubled by "increasingly hostile, even treasonable outbursts by Israeli Arabs against the state" while it is at war with neighboring countries,[14]

Another 2007 report, by the Center Against Racism, also found hostility against Arabs was on the rise. Among its findings it reported that 75% of Israeli Jews don't approve of Arabs and Jews sharing apartment buildings; that over half of Jews wouldn't want to have an Arab boss and that marrying an Arab amounts to "national treason"; and that 55% of the sample thought Arabs should be kept separate from Jews in entertainment sites. Half wanted the Israeli government to encourage Israeli Arabs to emigrate. About 40% believed Arab citizens should have their voting rights removed.[15]

A March 2010 poll by Tel Aviv University found that 49.5% of Israeli Jewish high school students believe Israeli Arabs should not be entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel. 56% believe Arabs should not be eligible to the Knesset, the Israeli parliament.[16]

An October 2010 poll by the Dahaf polling agency found that 36% of Israeli Jews favor eliminating voting rights for non-Jews.[17] In recent polling (2003–2009) between 42% and 56% of Israelis agreed that "Israeli Arabs suffer from discrimination as opposed to Jewish citizens;" 80% of Israeli Arabs agreed with that statement in 2009.[18]

Black Hebrew Israelite immigration

150px-Black_hebrews_Dimona_children.jpg


A child of the Black Hebrew Israelite community, in Dimona, September 2005.

Black Hebrew Israelites are groups of people mostly of Black African ancestry who believe they are descendants of the ancient Israelites. They are generally not accepted as Jews by the greater Jewish community. Many choose to self-identify as Hebrew Israelites or Black Hebrews rather than as Jews.[179][180][181][182]

When the first Black Hebrews arrived in Israel in 1969, they claimed citizenship under the Law of Return, which gives eligible Jews immediate citizenship.[183] The Israeli government ruled in 1973 that the group did not qualify for automatic citizenship, and the Black Hebrews were denied work permits and state benefits. The group responded by accusing the Israeli government of racist discrimination.[184][185]

In 1981, a group of American civil rights activist led by Bayard Rustin investigated and concluded that racism was not the cause of Black Hebrews' situation.[186] In 1990, Illinois legislators helped negotiate an agreement that resolved the Black Hebrews' legal status in Israel. Members of the group are permitted to work and have access to housing and social services. In 2003 the agreement was revised, and the Black Hebrews were granted permanent resident status.[187][188][189]

In his 1992 essay "Blacks and Jews: The Uncivil War", historian Taylor Branch wrote that Black Hebrews were initially denied citizenship due to anti-black sentiment among Israeli Jews (according to mainstream Jewish religious authorities, members of the Black Hebrew Israelite group are not Jewish).[190][191] According to historian Dr. Seth Forman the claims that the Black Hebrew Israelites were denied citizenship because they were black seem baseless, particularly in light of Israel's airlift of thousands of black Ethiopian Jews in the early 1990s.[192]
There is much more in the article, but I imagine you get the drift.

It is apparently your opinion that this isn't racism based on your own particular defintion of the word. It is likely the same one that many in the Israeli government insist on using themselves to avoid charges that they are deliberately ignoring racism in their own country which is contrary to the law. Obviously, many others disagree. What it really comes down to is yet another senseless argument over semantics.

Ethnic discrimination obviously occurs on a massive scale in Israel, whatever one decides to call it.
 
As much as I love to pile on Mitt I'm not sure I'm willing to give Palestinian culture a pass.

I'm not reflexively pro-Israel by a long shot, but I think there's a tendency to underestimate how effed up Palestine can be.



Link to video.
 
I don't give them an infinite free pass, though. There's no excusable reason to make Tomorrow's Pioneers.

Granted, I'm not "Ra! Ra! Israel" either.

Fair enough. Regarding Tomorrows Pioneers, if anything it further proves the suckiness of TV the world over. I've seen worse. It's basically "Crazy Fox"

Edit.....after a watching a few more clips I retract that I've seen worse.
 
Is there a world of difference between Farfour the Terror Mouse and the propaganda cartoons made by Disney during WWII to generate fear and hatred of Japanese and Germans? That is, except that the former was created by a single Hamas-affiliated TV station and the latter was part of a massive propaganda campaign financed by the US government?
 
Ah. So you aren't using the usual ultraconservative dodge that if it isn't a matter of white vs black that it can't possibly be racism. That there isn't anything even discriminatory or defamatory of an ethnic group in an absurd blanket statement such as this. I see...
 
Ahhh, yeah, anyway...

Discriminatory? Yes. There is nothing inherently wrong with being discriminatory, it just depends on what you are being discriminatory about. I am discriminatory when I choose Coke over Pepsi.

But we were talking about racism.
 
Is there a world of difference between Farfour the Terror Mouse and the propaganda cartoons made by Disney during WWII to generate fear and hatred of Japanese and Germans? That is, except that the former was created by a single Hamas-affiliated TV station and the latter was part of a massive propaganda campaign financed by the US government?

Form, here is the difference. IN the 40s such cartoons were shown right before adult movies. For adults.

There wasnt a 'saturday morning cartoon time' back then. Such cartoons were shown (along with other news reel clips) before movies.

Farfour is intentionally and solely directed at influencing children. Period.

Now please, please, PLEASE tell me you can tell the difference in these two situations.
 
Ahhh, yeah, anyway...

Discriminatory? Yes. There is nothing inherently wrong with being discriminatory, it just depends on what you are being discriminatory about. I am discriminatory when I choose Coke over Pepsi.

But we were talking about racism.
A much better example is the discrimination which appears in the above Wiki article that many people do consider to be racism. YMOV.

Form, here is the difference. IN the 40s such cartoons were shown right before adult movies. For adults.
No, the "big difference" continues to be trying to rationalize and defend despicable acts done by the US and Israeli governments while being overly critical of the Palestinians for doing essentially the same things. By trying to condemn and vilify all of them for the acts of a single TV station.
 
Now I have to take the same side as MobBoss
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!!!

@Forma: I've seen the Disney cartoons in question ( years before I had heard of Pioneers ) and I think the Palestinian show is far worse.
 
@Forma: I've seen the Disney cartoons in question ( years before I had heard of Pioneers ) and I think the Palestinian show is far worse.
Rather important point: the show was produced by Hamas, not by 'the Palestinians'. A specific group of Palestinians affiliated with Hamas made the show.
 
No. Unlike some, I dont think our elected officials the equivalent of evil.

Oh OH
Moderate Mobboss is about to be kick out of the Republican party as a RINO.
 
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