Blacks and Whites see race relations differently

[QuoVadisNation]

It could either be under-report or over-report. The question is, which one is more likely? We can make assumptions on either all day, but in the end arguing that the the majority of the result is under-reported would seem weak compared to arguing that the majority of the result is over-reported. Though I do agree with you on how to influence the poll..

 

[Holycannoli]

More integrated living, I think. Getting people to live in more diversified communities would prevent the sense of community isolation. We get used to (familiar with) societies that we're exposed to, and we get nervous about societies which we only hear bad things about (and most news is bad news).

Raising kids with a diversity of races means the kids will be more of the idea that everyone is normal.

Very true but not always easy. The street I grew up on was just like that. In fact it was the main story of The Star Ledger back in 2000. I remember the reporter being there at the block party, and the front page of the paper having a big picture of my neighbor's kids (who are now seniors in high school and in college) all of different races all smiling together.

http://www.nj.com/specialprojects/index.ssf?/specialprojects/martinrd/main.html

I was very lucky to grow up on Martin Road. It's a tiny street, completely unassuming except for the fact that it's very diverse and nobody acts like race is even noticed. There's people that say "oh, you're from that side of town" and we smile and say "yes". Black is white, white is black and neighbor is family. It's how we grew up.

(this year's block party is August 30th, and I might miss it New job as a Correction Officer starts August 1st)

How would you encourage more diversity like that though? I was born into it. It's something that should not be forced on anyone or any communities. All that does is guarantee segregation and prejudice, as people look upon the others with contempt or disgust since integration has been forced.

It's sad that my street is so rare that it made the front page, main story of the state's newspaper.

 

[Trajan12]

Very true but not always easy. The street I grew up on was just like that. In fact it was the main story of The Star Ledger back in 2000. I remember the reporter being there at the block party, and the front page of the paper having a big picture of my neighbor's kids (who are now seniors in high school and in college) all of different races all smiling together.

http://www.nj.com/specialprojects/index.ssf?/specialprojects/martinrd/main.html

I was very lucky to grow up on Martin Road. It's a tiny street, completely unassuming except for the fact that it's very diverse and nobody acts like race is even noticed. There's people that say "oh, you're from that side of town" and we smile and say "yes". Black is white, white is black and neighbor is family. It's how we grew up.

(this year's block party is August 30th, and I might miss it New job as a Correction Officer starts August 1st)

How would you encourage more diversity like that though? I was born into it. It's something that should not be forced on anyone or any communities. All that does is guarantee segregation and prejudice, as people look upon the others with contempt or disgust since integration has been forced.

It's sad that my street is so rare that it made the front page, main story of the state's newspaper.

The city about right outside of Detroit(One of the most starkly segregated metros in the nation), Southfield, about 60/40 in either direction(too lazy to check ) has a lot of neighborhoods like that.

 

[Holycannoli]

I guess around here there aren't that many middle/upper middle class neighborhoods that are really integrated. There's definite segregation here, both along racial and economic lines. Go to a nice, wealthy suburban neighborhood? Chances are it's mostly white. Go to a run-down, dirt poor neighborhood? Chances are it's mostly black. Go to a neighborhood that's somewhere in the middle? Chances are it's mostly hispanic or immigrants (but usually pretty diverse compared to the others).

That's just how it is here. So I guess my street is a little utopian island in the middle of it all.

 

[skadistic]

More integrated living, I think. Getting people to live in more diversified communities would prevent the sense of community isolation. We get used to (familiar with) societies that we're exposed to, and we get nervous about societies which we only hear bad things about (and most news is bad news).

Raising kids with a diversity of races means the kids will be more of the idea that everyone is normal.

That's the best thing about growing up in the military life. Diversity comes in spades.

 

[warpus]

Perhaps but so does everybody else. People may fancy the US as the bottom of race relations but to say that anywhere else is any better is to be in serious denial.

If nothing else at least the dialogue exists in the US, the rest of us like to bury our heads in the sand and act as though we've got it covered.

Well, depends on where you're talking about.

It's not so bad up here.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

Interesting side note, I grew up in a suburb in the middle of New Jersey with 40,000 people. I think the black population is 10%(?). Somewhere around there. I believe the average income per household ranges around $58,000. In New Jersey, this counts as a middle income type suburb. The area is really integrated, but people who move in recently bringing in "urban" culture often gets looked down upon by the Asians, Whites, and the Blacks.

 

[Patroklos]

Go to a nice, wealthy suburban neighborhood? Chances are it's mostly white.

Of course it is. Statistically that is the case with every neighborhood, it is part of being the majority

 

[Bill3000]

Of course it is. Statistically that is the case with every neighborhood, it is part of being the majority

No, it's called "voluntary segregation"

 

[History_Buff]

No, it's called "voluntary segregation"

Indeed; it all comes back to the concept of white flight.

But the whole issue is socio-economic, not actual rascim like it was in centuries past.

 

[Winner]

What this says to me is that America's whites are broadly smugly arrogant about the situation. They simply refuse to see an ongoing problem.

Perhaps its the blacks who see a problem where there is none. Or, tu put it bluntly, they use the "race card" to blame the society for their own problems. That's what some minorities do, when they're encouraged to do it by racist propaganda (hidden under the banner of multiculturalism and affirmative action).

The reason I care so much about this is, that as an ever larger number of blacks give up on the American dream, the crime and poverty and associated problems spill out further and further and affect more people.

We're already paying for the problem, why not just end it rather than pay an ever increasing price?

How do you want to end it?

 

[Cato the Elder]

Perhaps its the blacks who see a problem where there is none. Or, tu put it bluntly, they use the "race card" to blame the society for their own problems. That's what some minorities do, when they're encouraged to do it by racist propaganda (hidden under the banner of multiculturalism and affirmative action).



How do you want to end it?

lol what

Are you actually insinuating minorities have control over either the United States or the Czech Republic? (well if Obama wins that'd technically be true in the first case but let's not focus on that too much now)

 

[Red Door]

It's really unbelievable when you look at race relation threads on CFC. Instead of looking for solutions to problems or discussing actual race relations, people hide behind blanket statements calling the other side is racist. There is still racism in the United States. There is a feeling of extensive racism. We need to end both in the United States. And we need to stop these blanked statements on CFC. They're ridiculous. Not one side is "at fault" in this case. I would agree that most whites like to ignore the racism in this country (or maybe they don't see it), but they (the survey responders) are also right in a way. Racism still exists, but it is not as extensive as it has been in the pat.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

I guess around here there aren't that many middle/upper middle class neighborhoods that are really integrated. There's definite segregation here, both along racial and economic lines. Go to a nice, wealthy suburban neighborhood? Chances are it's mostly white. Go to a run-down, dirt poor neighborhood? Chances are it's mostly black. Go to a neighborhood that's somewhere in the middle? Chances are it's mostly hispanic or immigrants (but usually pretty diverse compared to the others).

That's just how it is here. So I guess my street is a little utopian island in the middle of it all.

Just look at the Passaic River. Paterson - Fair Lawn; Passaic - Garfield; Clifton - Rutherford; Belleville - North Arlington; Newark - Kearny & Harrison. And then, of course, look at that ridge separating the Oranges -- East Orange is project towers, West Orange is Whole Foods. There's a tremendous amount of de facto segregation in North Jersey.

Cleo

 

[Holycannoli]

Yeah there is. It's by choice, all by choice. And by that I mean the people with money want to live apart from the people without. You must live around here too huh? All the towns here have their own ethnic neighborhoods, or almost the entire town is an ethnic neighborhood. People here are most comfortable around their own kind, and when you've grown up here it's simply the way it is. It's not ideal by any means, but it's how it is.

As much as the segregation is racial, it's also economical. The two go hand in hand around here. It just so happens that the majority of people who cannot afford to live in the higher priced areas are minorities (including immigrants).

I live in North Jersey, grew up here and just got a job as County Correction Officer in Essex so I won't be leaving any time soon. So all that de facto segregation is just a normal part of life. When I think about it now that you mentioned those contrasting towns, it makes the tiny street I grew up on all the more special

You want a really interesting example? Montclair. You have the super-rich folk in Upper Montclair living in their multi-million dollar mansions, with celebrities thrown into the mix, and just a few blocks away on the other side of town you have a depressed "ghetto" (it's not really a ghetto but you know what I mean) that sees a lot more gang activity and violence than you'd think. And that "ghetto" is also bordered by Glen Ridge, another rich town.

Guess what the racial makeups of Upper Montclair, lower(?) Montclair, and Glen Ridge are? Rich, poor, well-to-do respectively.

 

[El_Machinae]

How would you encourage more diversity like that though?

1) avoid aid/welfare projects which will collect people together. "The projects" gathered everyone into a group and then allowed a lack of diversity to foster.

2) well, I think that getting more blacks into middle-income lifestyles would help too. Let them afford a house in the suburbs and raise their kids in the suburbs

3) the truly courageous could actually move to areas nontypical for their colour and then lead clean, wholesome lives.

 

[Ansar]

1) avoid aid/welfare projects which will collect people together. "The projects" gathered everyone into a group and then allowed a lack of diversity to foster.

2) well, I think that getting more blacks into middle-income lifestyles would help too. Let them afford a house in the suburbs and raise their kids in the suburbs

3) the truly courageous could actually move to areas nontypical for their colour and then lead clean, wholesome lives.

Well, you can't really force people to live and interact together.

White flight will occur again .

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Yeah there is. It's by choice, all by choice. And by that I mean the people with money want to live apart from the people without. You must live around here too huh? All the towns here have their own ethnic neighborhoods, or almost the entire town is an ethnic neighborhood. People here are most comfortable around their own kind, and when you've grown up here it's simply the way it is. It's not ideal by any means, but it's how it is.

As much as the segregation is racial, it's also economical. The two go hand in hand around here. It just so happens that the majority of people who cannot afford to live in the higher priced areas are minorities (including immigrants).

I live in North Jersey, grew up here and just got a job as County Correction Officer in Essex so I won't be leaving any time soon. So all that de facto segregation is just a normal part of life. When I think about it now that you mentioned those contrasting towns, it makes the tiny street I grew up on all the more special

You want a really interesting example? Montclair. You have the super-rich folk in Upper Montclair living in their multi-million dollar mansions, with celebrities thrown into the mix, and just a few blocks away on the other side of town you have a depressed "ghetto" (it's not really a ghetto but you know what I mean) that sees a lot more gang activity and violence than you'd think. And that "ghetto" is also bordered by Glen Ridge, another rich town.

Guess what the racial makeups of Upper Montclair, lower(?) Montclair, and Glen Ridge are? Rich, poor, well-to-do respectively.

But there are economic factors mixed in with that choice, too. It wasn't too long ago that the towns on the East side of the Passaic River would pull up the bridges at sundown. I'm sure there are people in those towns who remember that. It wasn't until 1966 when you could legally discriminate by race regarding to whom you sold your house (and if you were selling, I'm sure your neighbors talked to you). The segregation caused by those policies has long-lasting economic effects which resulted in widespread poverty in black communities. Because of that racial segregation, a lot of people have less opportunity (not no opportunity, but less) to be able to afford to move from East to West Orange.

Cleo

 

[JollyRoger]

(not no opportunity, but less)

Cleo

I think the gap in perception on race relations can, in part, be explained by the following thought processes:

Not no opportunity = no problem = nothing needs to be done

Less opportunity = problem = more needs to be done

 

[Winner]

lol what

Are you actually insinuating minorities have control over either the United States or the Czech Republic?

No

(or if I wanted to be cynical, I'd say that no democracy is actually led by the majority, but since you were talking about ethnic minorities, the answer is that you're imagining it).

(well if Obama wins that'd technically be true in the first case but let's not focus on that too much now)