BOTM 01 Pre-Game Discussion

[tanklord99]

I have all the latest patches and I cannot get the adventurer save to load. Gonna try the challenger and see what happens.

 

[Obormot]

Challenger players should seriously consider moving 1W to build on the Ivory.

Its a rather difficult choice. If You settle on top of the ivory and start with a worker, the worker will be completed long before You can possibly learn AH (no starting techs!). So the options for challengers are:
1. Settle in place learn hunting->AH, worker builds camp, then pasture;
2. Settle on top of the ivory, learn mining->BW, stay at size one, mine the pigs;
3. Gamble and follow the blue circle (eastern one).

 

[killercane]

Its a rather difficult choice. If You settle on top of the ivory and start with a worker, the worker will be completed long before You can possibly learn AH (no starting techs!). So the options for challengers are:
1. Settle in place learn hunting->AH, worker builds camp, then pasture;
2. Settle on top of the ivory, learn mining->BW, stay at size one, mine the pigs;
3. Gamble and follow the blue circle (eastern one).

Challenger save and no seafood makes it easy.

1) Move scout to hill.
2) If no food, move.
3) If food, flip coin/decide by another method.

Moving also places you closer to AIs for warrior rush. Hopefully there are some nearby.

 

[Obormot]

There is no food in the south, except the clams, otherwise we would have had a blue circle at the starting location. Still moving to the eastern blue circle costs two turns plus the extra hammer, and is not guranteed to give any more bonus resources.

Warrior rush is another opening to consider. On a Big and Small map You are not guaranteed to have a neighbour on the same landmass, but the propability is high.

 

[Angst]

I'm thinking Lighthouses for growth, Courthouses for Espionage and running an EE. You guys?

 

[slowrider]

Was playing a few turns in the provided practice game last night and before I could pop out my first worker ...

"some industrious villagers built a pasture" on my pig resource. They were also nice enough to include a road even though I hadn't researched that yet.

I don't think we're in Kansas anymore ...

 

[Cactus Pete]

Haven't played BTS but just read manual. Nothing in there about how espionage and diplomacy interact. Can someone direct me to info on this?

 

[Kennigit]

I'm thinking Lighthouses for growth, Courthouses for Espionage and running an EE. You guys?

I have no experience for an EE, but at prince level the AI's probably will tech too slowly to effectively steal techs. But an early CoL rush, build coutrhouses, get maces, and use espionage to abuse the target nation could prove very powerful.

edit- PS, I remember about some discussion about the awards could be changed for the epthalon (spelling) to have gold medals instead of cows and so forth. It's embarissing that I don't actually know this, but are there three seperate epthalons for GOTMs, WOTMs, and BOTM's? If so, will the new BOTM award system be changed? (and there is a new category for the AP win, correct?)

 

[SteelHorse]

Tried the practice game and found that by the time I finished Aplha and got spies out there were plenty of tech for the taking. I think the GW with Scottland Yard from the GSpy will provide benefits of both keeping the barbs at bay and getting the technology acquisition team ramped up. Not sure on religious strategy with EE. Found? Accept Neighbor? Any thoughts?

 

[Jove]

I'm glad I didn't jump into this one. Low water=lots of land. Fair chance all civs could be met by galley. Not that we can trade for tech, but that still leaves gold, maps, resources, diplomacy, espionage... And Yakob is quite a builder, no? It really might be more fun to go for space instead. Or cultural, to have an excuse to build Steles. The Glighthouse could still be justified if we delayed great people for a Great Merchant, sped with Caste System merchants, to bulb Civil Service. Its slower than the Oracle for sure, but a guaranteed deal if done right. Does anyone know offhand what techs we want to have and avoid to bulb CS with a merchant? And I'm curious what a Maori Statues driven cultural game on a map like this might look like. And. Since I really don't know how to play Bts, a long game might be beneficial just to see what this thing does.

 

[Cactus Pete]

There is no food in the south, except the clams, otherwise we would have had a blue circle at the starting location.

Would someone explain this analysis. Does the lack of a blue circle absolutely mean there are no sea resources within two tiles south of the plains hills?

 

[Erkon]

...
edit- PS, I remember about some discussion about the awards could be changed for the epthalon (spelling) to have gold medals instead of cows and so forth. It's embarissing that I don't actually know this, but are there three seperate epthalons for GOTMs, WOTMs, and BOTM's? If so, will the new BOTM award system be changed? (and there is a new category for the AP win, correct?)

Bump. Could someone from the staff shed some light regarding the cow/gold requirements for the Eptathlete Award for BOTM?

 

[Obormot]

Would someone explain this analysis. Does the lack of a blue circle absolutely mean there are no sea resources within two tiles south of the plains hills?

I am not 100% sure, of course. But if I understand it correctly the blue circles find spots with maximum number of bonus resources in the neighbourhood. So having a blue circle east of the pigs and no blue circle in place suggests that there are no resources at the start, and at least one resource in the east (but it may be something useless, like oil or uranium).

 

[wwassme]

There is no food in the south, except the clams, otherwise we would have had a blue circle at the starting location.

I'm not sure that's true when Ainwood edits the map. I don't know if the "blue circles" know where food/resources added through world builder are located. With pigs, ivory and clams nearby, I would think there would be a blue circle at the starting location. That suggests that the pigs, ivory and/or clams are added.

 

[oyzar]

Resources you haven't discovered yet doesn't normally count for blue circles(though they might count on the first turn... not 100% sure on that..).

 

[Cactus Pete]

I am not 100% sure, of course. But if I understand it correctly the blue circles find spots with maximum number of bonus resources in the neighbourhood. So having a blue circle east of the pigs and no blue circle in place suggests that there are no resources at the start, and at least one resource in the east (but it may be something useless, like oil or uranium).

By neighborhood, do you mean only within the cross; thus, sea resources two tiles south of the plains hills, out in the ocean but accessible to a city founded on one of those hills, would not be taken into account?

 

[Obormot]

Well, I don't know how exactly the algorithm works. I think it takes into account the resources in the fat cross, plus I think it also likes settling on plains hills, and maybe some other things like overall terrain quality. My intuition tells me that if we had seafood 1 tile to the south from the coast we wopuld have had a blue circle on the starting tile; and if we had seafood 2S from the coast, we would have had a blue circle on top of one of the hills. But that may be wrong. Perhaps the safest way is just moving the scout as killercane said, especially since the land to the NW doesn't look very promising for exploration.

I am pretty much sure that unmodded blue circle algorithm cheats, taking into account resources in the fog of war, as well as resources concealed by techs. It could be fixed by the HOF mod though.

 

[oyzar]

IT does not take into account resources not discovered yet but it do take into account things hidden by the fog.

 

[GoodGame]

Anyone else having trouble loading the saves? I load the Hof 3.13 mod, then the save, but the save keeps giving me a message that the save is protected, and then exits to windows.

 

[Angst]

^^ me too.