Boy Scouts of America to vote to end ban on gay scouts

[Farm Boy]

I think you're helping my point, not contradicting it - but I'm not sure I'm reading you rightly.

For that matter, I'm not sure I understand precisely what 'laissez-faire' means in terms of policy. My less-than-layman's impression is that it describes a system of free-market capitalism with minimal regulation or structured societal interference.

My position is that L-F was predominant in the US from roughly Reconstruction through the end of the Gilded Age. Affecting the making food, things, and people. I might be wrong - I don't know anything about this stuff.

I think you have L-F correct, and that's what the Gilded Age wasn't. Between intentional tinkering with production through an oppressive system of tariffs and intentional deflation the government quite actively smashed the hell out of small entrepreneurs and farmers that quite possibly would have done alright for themselves if they weren't considered needed for wage labor in factories - thus the tariffs on imports designed to achieve retaliatory tariffs on exports, crushing prices and the deflation designed to murder any change that a small business that operates on debt could ever get out of it even if they managed to squeak through a sale of product for more than a pittance.

The only reason the Gilded Age ever gets held up as a beacon of L-F and capitalism is because the people doing it have a short or absent understanding of history and look at "oh these huge businesses had a lot of incentives and they did well." Which is mentally damaged. Seeing as the entire point of the Gilded Age was to drive a massive percentage out of private business and into wage labor in the cities through active, pervasive, and ongoing governmental efforts to smash their livelihood.

 

[Cutlass]

I think you have L-F correct, and that's what the Gilded Age wasn't. Between intentional tinkering with production through an oppressive system of tariffs and intentional deflation the government quite actively smashed the hell out of small entrepreneurs and farmers that quite possibly would have done alright for themselves if they weren't considered needed for wage labor in factories - thus the tariffs on imports designed to achieve retaliatory tariffs on exports, crushing prices and the deflation designed to murder any change that a small business that operates on debt could ever get out of it even if they managed to squeak through a sale of product for more than a pittance.

The only reason the Gilded Age ever gets held up as a beacon of L-F and capitalism is because the people doing it have a short or absent understanding of history and look at "oh these huge businesses had a lot of incentives and they did well." Which is mentally damaged. Seeing as the entire point of the Gilded Age was to drive a massive percentage out of private business and into wage labor in the cities through active, pervasive, and ongoing governmental efforts to smash their livelihood.

Kind of a mix there. It was kinda 'laissez-faire', in that the government wasn't doing much to control the economy. Tariffs may have been harmful to segments for the gain of other segments. But deflation was as much the fact that there was no monetary policy as a policy intended to get a given result. Still, there was a lot of aspects of 'laissez-faire'.

But what most people don't get is that 'laissez-faire' does not equal 'free markets'. Anything but, actually. 'Laissez-faire' means market controlled by non-governmental actors. And those people would never allow a market to be free if they could help it, whether government can be corrupted to help or not.

 

[RobAnybody]

I think you should have picked up on it by Lord of Chaos. A lot of the scifi/fantasy fans are in denial and there isn't a lot of fan analysis about that linkage but there's just really no way of getting around it. It's plain as A, B, C, 1, 2, 3.

Yeah, my favorite parts of the Bible are when Jesus marries three chicks at once & when he swordfights The Devil. Who’s your favorite of the Evil Apostles? You know, out of the ones that appear in the Bible. I always assume The White Tower was meant to represent Lot’s wife, don’t you?

 

[peter grimes]

I think you have L-F correct, and that's what the Gilded Age wasn't.

the entire point of the Gilded Age was to drive a massive percentage out of private business and into wage labor in the cities through active, pervasive, and ongoing governmental efforts to smash their livelihood.

I didn't think the Gilded Age had a 'point', but was more the emergent result of a series of policy positions. Like, I didn't think Andrew Carnegie and Leland Stanford went into meetings at the club and said "let's see if we can find a better way to drive more sheeple into wage slavery".

My impression - which, as I've said, is very likely inaccurate - was that it's more like they wanted to build a dam (capital), and the fact that all the trees in the valley (human beings) drowned wasn't even a concern of theirs because all they cared about was massive stockpiles of water ($$).

But what most people don't get is that 'laissez-faire' does not equal 'free markets'. Anything but, actually. 'Laissez-faire' means market controlled by non-governmental actors. And those people would never allow a market to be free if they could help it, whether government can be corrupted to help or not.

That's a more succinct summation of my nebulous impressions.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yeah, my favorite parts of the Bible are when Jesus marries three chicks at once & when he swordfights The Devil. Who’s your favorite of the Evil Apostles? You know, out of the ones that appear in the Bible. I always assume The White Tower was meant to represent Lot’s wife, don’t you?

Well obviously those parts are awesome. The New Testament makes for a much more exciting new fantasy story with more sex and violence. But yea, the holy trinity of the blond the brunette and the redhead was a nice touch. You can do so much pure awesome with symbolism in a storyline that's set in one of those ever-repeating-but-everything-is-abitdifferent plot devices. Doesn't actually sword fight with The Morning Star though. Just some of the thirteen apostles respun as evil(Balthamel, if you had to make me pick probably).

 

[JohannaK]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/23/boy-scouts-approve-plan-to-accept-openly-gay-members/

I read the title so fast that I missed the "pe" in openly at first.

 

[civ_king]

I read the title so fast that I missed the "pe" in openly at first.