I don't think the Samantha Bee discussion should be conflated with the Rosanne discussion
Kinda unavoidable since Bee's only under serious attack because of what happened to Barr. And I see now Bee is apologizing and Trump's pressuring the network to act.
That makes me madder than the insult. Trump doesn't want his daughter insulted, dont make her an 'advisor'.
One is an insult targeting a single person. One is a racial slur targeting several million people. Saying they are both "insults" is erroneous. Saying it over and over will eventually become lying.
Both insults targeted individuals - Valerie Jarrett and Donald Trump. How does one make the other not an insult? If someone calls Trump an ape does it cease being an insult because Jarrett was called an ape too? A lie doesn't become a lie because of repetition - if its a lie, its a lie from the get go. And that could be said about repeating the accusation Barr was calling black people apes. She didn't, she called Valerie Jarrett the child of Kim Hunter's character. Why? Because of a resemblance. The joke doesn't work if Barr said it about Michele Obama.
And you from the other thread:
what I said there also applies here:
There was no indication that Barr was joking at all. That was just her post tweet defense.
So she didn't tell us it was a joke. She's a stand up comedian, they dont open the show by announcing they'll proceed to tell jokes. Hell, who does that? We dont need a 'just joking' at the end to figure out it was a joke. Of course it was a joke, thats what she does - tells jokes.
Combining both the ape remark with Muslim she was being doubly offensive by invoking two of Trump's supporters most red meat pejoratives.
I figured it was about Jarrett's politics... Thats another reason the joke failed, she didn't explain why the Muslim Brotherhood factored into it. But I doubt she was thinking of red meat Trump supporters, just Jarrett's politics. Barr went after her because of something Jarrett said, probably about Trump.
Calling trump an orangutan is a recent phenomenon based solely on Trump's personal style.
And comparing Valerie Jarrett to the female ape from the movie is based on appearance too. I can figure that out, but I've seen the movie so many times I know what Kim Hunter's character looked like. Google images of both and you'll see a resemblance. The joke doesn't work for a black woman (or any woman) who doesn't resemble the character.
There is no history of slurring white people by calling them orangutans. Maher is a comedian/entertainer whose business it is to mock pompous celebrities he dislikes. It is no different than mocking Obama for his ears or Rush Limbaugh for being overweight.
They're both stand up comedians by training...and friends. I suspect Maher will invite Roseanne on at some point to defend herself if he doesn't defend her first. But yes, Barr's mistake was comparing a black person to an ape. Thats problematic given the racist' proclivity for comparing black people to apes, but she based the comparison on a resemblance that does exist. Any fan of the movie can see that without even thinking about the sins of racists.
Reminds me of a South Park episode (again
), Chef (the black guy played by Isaac Hayes?) is pissed off by the town flag depicting white men standing around while a black guy is hanged and wants it changed. The debate is finally resolved when the men standing around as the black guy is hanged are ethnically diverse, including a black man. But Chef has an epiphany - he cant understand why the kids he has mentored dont see why the flag is racist. He realizes they didn't even notice race, to them the flag was just some guys hanging a criminal.
Should she lose her TV forum/show? Again this is a wholly different situation. Do you go after her for using bad words? For calling out the innocent daughter of a bad president? Was she just unnecessarily mean?
I dont think either should lose their show. Unwise jokes, hurtful, yes... But I can see why a parallel is being drawn, both women and blacks have suffered from these insults. I can understand why both groups would react angrily to being called c**** or apes. But the insults were directed at individuals for a reason.