Brazil is unraveling

[luiz]

I found this quite interesting: https://www.facebook.com/enioverri/videos/762790037184408/

In portuguese only.

Oh God.

So there are all sorts of small-time accusations against opposition leaders (yes, because all the accusations in that video are peanuts). Arrest them all for all I care.

Meanwhile, the PT directly stole tens of billions of dollars (if not hundreds), in what might be the biggest corruption scandal in the history of the human race, and has plunged the country in the worst recession in 100 years.

There's no equality. There are crooks in all parties, and they should all be dealt with (and are being dealt with, as your video makes clear), but PT is a cancer. The Workers' Party must die so that Brazil can live.

I do find it amusing though that PT-drones no longer try to defend the party. Their line now is: "yes, yes maybe we stole tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars and created a depression that makes the Great Depression look like the good old days, but look!! That opposition guy cheats on taxes!!! They're as bad as us! Don't impeach us!!!"

Pathetic.

 

[W|M]

Well for one there's the fact that the PT didn't steal tens of billions of dollars, and the corruption that is going on now has been going on since forever. Brazil didn't start existing in 2003.

 

[luiz]

Well for one there's the fact that the PT didn't steal tens of billions of dollars, and the corruption that is going on now has been going on since forever. Brazil didn't start existing in 2003.

I'll only answer to your new posts after you acknowledge you've been wrong about everything you wrote this this thread. You should also apologize to (real) Brazilians like me for supporting this monster called Dilma and helping to ruin my (not yours) country.

But anyone with an Internet connection can verify the extent of the Petrobras scandal, entirely created by the PT. Corruption always existed, in Brazil and in all places. But the biggest corruption scandal in history is pretty new (by definition if nothing else).

 

[luiz]

PT supporters are obviously unfit to live in civilized society. Their literal only line of defense is that Dilma should not be impeached because there is corruption in other parties and the PT didn't invent corruption.

It's like if Nixon said: "I can't be impeached and won't resign over Watergate, because there's evidence that some Democratic politician in Alabama is also doing illegal stuff!"

Or if a rapist caught in the act argued that he can't be punished because a lot of rapists walk away, therefore punishing him is unfair.

 

[W|M]

You don't even live here, and the problem with you is that you refuse to be as angry to other parties as you are to PT, it's selective anger. If Dilma is to be impeached, so is literally every other politician in Brazil.

 

[luiz]

You don't even live here, and the problem with you is that you refuse to be as angry to other parties as you are to PT, it's selective anger. If Dilma is to be impeached, so is literally every other politician in Brazil.

I lived in Brazil for longer than you have existed on this Earth. And I actually know the country, unlike you (you have demonstrated over and over to know nothing of the country. I hope you're less ignorant on matters of your homeland, the UK, than you are in matters of your ancestors' homeland, Brazil). I still pay a fortune in Brazilian taxes every year - again unlike you (a "wild" guess). So I have skin in the game, and want the PT dead.

Dilma is to be impeached because she has broken the law, and this is completely established by a court of law (the TCU). If Congress simply upholds the Law, she has to be impeached. In time she will also be convicted by the TSE, because evidence that her campaign used money stolen from Petrobras is overwhelming, so she will be impeached based on condemnation from two distinct courts. Quite an achievement!

There are other corrupt politicians, sure, and they should be punished. The video that other PT-drone posted talks of a PSDB bigwig who was sentenced to 20 years in jail. So he was punished. Very good.

Why can't Dilma and Lula be punished? Why do PT-drones think they are untouchable?

We have proof against Lula and Dilma. We should go after everyone we have proof against. That's how it is in the civilized world.

We don't let a murderer or a rapist walk simply because we can't arrest all murderers and rapists. The PT has raped Brazil, we have the evidence, so they will pay.

Can it be any simpler?

 

[CavLancer]

Somehow this thread makes the mess in the US seem like a mere nothing, and for that I am grateful.

 

[caketastydelish]

Dilma is the reason America has a better soccer team than Brazil. Take that, luiz!

 

[Yeekim]

This "b-b-but they are doing it toooo!" bleating is oh-so-familiar...
Last argument of a corruptant caught red-handed.

 

[classical_hero]

It may not be rocket science, but it's not as simple as you present it to be. In the EU, countries attempting austerity measures seem to actually slow down economic recovery. That's nothing new though, as the same thing happened in the 1930s. The issue is not deficit spending, it's how you actually spend the budget.

By the way, there's no 'voodo' in economics. It's a social science. And taking the example of 3 countries as 'proof' for anything is hardly scientific. Not even in social sciences.

How Ireland manage to turn it's economy around by slashing government spen ding, or as you would call it, Austerity? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-10/irish-economy-expanded-7-8-in-2015-fastest-pace-since-2000

Consumer spending rose 3.1 percent in the fourth quarter from the year earlier, while government spending dropped 6.8 percent. Exports rose 16 percent in the three months ended in December from the year-earlier period while imports rose 15 percent. Investment rose 28 percent.

Phenomenal growth that happened while cutting government spending, who knew?

 

[Lexicus]

How Ireland manage to turn it's economy around by slashing government spen ding, or as you would call it, Austerity? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-10/irish-economy-expanded-7-8-in-2015-fastest-pace-since-2000

Phenomenal growth that happened while cutting government spending, who knew?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpo...ty-success-is-no-model-for-greece-340662.html

GREECE is being told to follow Ireland’s crisis solution of harsh austerity and acceptance of bank-and-bailout debt. This narrative conveniently ignores that the Irish ‘recovery’ has been built on major human rights violations and the undermining of long-term social and economic development.

 

[luiz]

"Major" human rights violations are responsible for Ireland's recent recovery? Hum... I'm quite skeptical, to say the least.

 

[Defacto]

This "b-b-but they are doing it toooo!" bleating is oh-so-familiar...

It is not like we are denying that Lula could have been a part in the coarruption scandals. It is the simple fact that the Brazilian political system does not work. Period. Like WIM said, Brazil didn't start existing in 2003.

Brazil's politics will never be taken seriously. Either by one or the other side of the coin. The old Brazilian way of the "he steals, but he does".

 

[luiz]

Nobody, nobody believes that all corruption is inside the PT or that it started in 2003. What 90% of the country is saying is that this is no excuse not to prosecute Lula and impeach Dilma. While the corrupt 10% of the country is using that kindergarten argument that we can't punish Lula because there's corruption in other parties.

Oddly, when the PT was leading a crusade to impeach Collor, I don't remember anyone making the argument that it was "unfair" to be only angry at Collor, since there is corruption in all parties. No, back then we had evidence against Collor (for crimes that look like childish pranks compared to the societal rape that the PT perpetrated), and so the whole country saw it fit to impeach him. Why does the corrupt 10% believe that what applied to Collor does not apply to Lula and Dilma?

Finally, there's corruption everywhere, but only one party committed the biggest corruption scandal in history: the PT. There has always been some crooks at Petrobras (which is why it should be privatized, something the PT radically opposes), but only one party made it lose over 90% of its market capitalization due to corruption (and not fall in oil prices; other oil majors lost between 10% and 15% of their value. 90% is one more record brought to us by the genius of PT).

Finally, even with all corruption aside, only one party was able to cause a recession bigger than the Great Depression.

Need I go on? Jail is actually a very merciful punishment for Lula & co.

 

[W|M]

Well if you care so much about corruption, why don't you go on and on about, say, Aécio Neves smuggling nearly half a tonne of cocaine? Surely you should talk equally as much about him as you talk about Dilma and Lula

 

[luiz]

Well if you care so much about corruption, why don't you go on and on about, say, Aécio Neves smuggling nearly half a tonne of cocaine? Surely you should talk equally as much about him as you talk about Dilma and Lula

Because Aécio never smuggled half tonne of cocaine. That you think it was Aécio already indicated you're a PT-drone.

The helicopter belonged to a politician (Zezé Perrela) who is not even in the same party as Aécio. Locally he was allied with Aécio, nationally he was allied with the PT. You might as well say the PT smuggled half a tonne of cocaine, because he is as linked to the PT as he is to Aécio.

But I don't ascribe that particular crime to the PT. In fact it's unclear even if the politician in question was involved. The police investigation said he wasn't, but it certainly is a bizarre case. He seems like a crook to me, and I have no interest in defending him.

But Aécio had exactly zero to do with that episode. And under Brazilian Law you can be criminally persecuted for that accusation, even on the Internet. People have been for far less. Just a friendly FYI.

Go make up a better accusation and / or reason we shouldn't demand the impeachment of a President already considered criminal by a court.

 

[luiz]

And as breaking news, São Paulo's D.A. has requested the arrest of Lula.

 

[W|M]

Alright, what about Beto Mansur, who owned/owns slaves? I don't see you go around demanding his arrest

 

[luiz]

Alright, what about Beto Mansur, who owned/owns slaves? I don't see you go around demanding his arrest

Wait a second. So to be coherent when demanding the impeachment of the freaking President of the Republic and the arrest of a the former President I have to demand the arrest of all politicians, even an obscure mayor from a second-rate city like Beto Manur? I actually had to Google him to be reminded of exactly what he did.

Of course I want him arrested. I want all criminals arrested.

But can't you see that the President and her party are causing far more harm, and are far more visible?

It's completely absurd to criticize me for not demanding the arrest of every single corrupt politician every time I demand Dilma's impeachment.

Let me be clear: I want all crooks in jail, regardless of their party. But the crooks who are ruining Brazil are Dilma and her party. A corrupt President is far more serious than a corrupt deputy, which is why she gets more attention, and rightly so. But that doesn't mean I'm OK with any of the other corruption scandals.

 

[Bootstoots]

What Brazilian politicians are not corrupt, and how difficult is it to do business there without paying bribes?