Breastfeeding in public

[Formaldehyde]

Has anyone here argued that breastfeeding in public should be illegalized or is this just a straw man argument by the some progressive-wannabe?

Just the insinuations of some of the all-too-typical reactioanary busybodies with whom you apparently agree.

Isn't there a thing called "indecent exposure" in your country? Isn't that what you're penalized with when peeing in public? Peeing is natural, but doing it in public is against the law because of indecent exposure. The same could be argued for breastfeeding.

So much for your so-called "strawman".

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Has anyone here argued that breastfeeding in public should be illegalized or is this just a straw man argument by the some progressive-wannabe?

Well, you were comparing breastfeeding with acts that are thoroughly illegal (read: should never be done under any circumstances).

 

[Formaldehyde]

I guess he couldn't remember what he just posted.

 

[Winner]

I think the problem here is that there is a convention that people should wear clothes, simply to allow others to walk past them without having to feel anything (sexual arousal in the best case, nausea at the worst). Obviously when something violates this convention, it is a problem.

Mothers argue that it's natural, that it doesn't harm anybody and therefore there should be no problem with it. I agree - there should be no problem. But there is. Some... bodily functions are best not displayed in public.

I don't think it is that difficult to breast feed your baby in a way to avoid being seen by too many people.

The woman MPs in some countries who do it just to make a statement are just laughable.

 

[warpus]

>.>

The connection between the two which Patroklos was making is that they are both natural and healthy.

• 
  Argument: "breastfeeding in public should be allowed because it is natural and healthy."

• Counter argument: "masturbation in public should be allowed because it is natural and healthy."

I sit in the camp that says that efforts to make it discreet are encouraged and very much appreciated, however mothers should not be forced to go into a bathroom, etc. A simple blanket draped over the mother's shoulder is the easiest solution for common courtesy.

Ehm, masturbating and/or peeing in public is unsanitary. You are also exposing your genitals - which is quite different as exposing your nipples.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Just the insinuations of some of the all-too-typical reactioanary busybodies with whom you apparently agree.

So much for your so-called "strawman".

You can try and read whatever you want into that, I still never argued that it should be illegalized. Being discrete when breastfeeding in public would just be the way I'd like to see it handled.

I'm surprised that you and some other can't follow a simple argument.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Oh, I can "follow" it alright. I merely disagree that provincial busybodies should be able to inflict their own morals on everybody else by using this law to persecute nursing mothers. And, fortunately, now they can no longer do so in 28 out of 50 states thanks to the efforts of many to change the law so it can no longer be misused in that manner. Hopefully, more states will follow suit as the public becomes better educated and less provincial.

 

[Patroklos]

Just the insinuations of some of the all-too-typical reactioanary busybodies with whom you apparently agree.

In other words, no. Those figments of your imagination are apparently talking to you again.

 

[Patroklos]

Ehm, masturbating and/or peeing in public is unsanitary. You are also exposing your genitals - which is quite different as exposing your nipples.

Female breasts are most definetly included in the governing laws here in the US, so this line doesn't fly here.

And sorry, there is nothing more or less inherently sanitary about breast feeding over urination of masterbation. All are simple the expulsion of bodily fluids, as long as they are controlled during and afterward there is no difference what so ever.

The arguement is boiled down to exactly what Winner reduced them to, the application of standard social norms consistantly.

 

[przemuch]

what if I have no problem with either form of toplessness?

Then you also realise you're outside both cultural mainstream and the general consensus about behaviour in public places present in all countries of the North. And many of the South as well

Which brings a little to the subject itself.

Unless... someone sharing your opinion argues that breastfeeding is fundamentally different kind of nudity, free of indecent conotations, just because... society thinks so. Which is debatable anyway.

unfortunately, you fail at understanding that just because some people derive sexual arousal from something doesn't mean that it's inherently sexual. If it were the case you'd have to forbid being barefoot in public too, to only name the most obvious example.

I'm neither advocating bannig bare feet, nor accepting ad absurdum point of view. Apparently, particular society made it's own set of rules about which part of the body is considered indecent. For some reason breast-rules seem to be rather detailed and enforced harder than feet-rules, so also for some purpose naked breast is considered indecent, while naked foot is not. You're welcome to explain this weird case without "sexual" theme if you wish to do so. But "Millions of people are simply misinformed about what should be considered inherently sexual" version is acceptable only if we treat sex purely as a reproduction tool. Anything else about it tends to escape such artificial borders and nobody even needs any marginal "philia" to explain why. There were times when public coitus was something close to mandatory in western cultures - so society rules are indeed shifting a lot and I doubt you'd expect the process to be rational.

So I'm not afraid about "ban everything" case. Not going to happen, even Taliban failed at this field.

But as I recall OP asked something along the lines "is it ok NOW?" - not hypothetically (feet case) or always (coitus case). If we're talking about the society capable of going partially insane after some ridiculous "breast accident" (Janet Jackson?), there's surprisingly little to talk about.

Me? Don't really care, both arguments have valid points, though I prefer a little predictability when it comes to the rules. So in societies where public topless is considered indecent - be discreet*. No cherrypicking, no pitiful militant groups bending the law with their campaigns, less double standards - the better. Special circumstances? Treated like such, not as an excuse for everyone else.

* How to determine in which society you are? Common sense - but when still in doubt, stay on the safer side. Sure, it's bloody unfair, but such rule would be golden in waaaay more serious social problems, so I see no point in avoiding it in such cases.

 

[warpus]

I think the problem here is that there is a convention that people should wear clothes, simply to allow others to walk past them without having to feel anything (sexual arousal in the best case, nausea at the worst). Obviously when something violates this convention, it is a problem.

I work at a university campus and as such am frequently in contact with scantily clad ladies with curvatious bodies. Sexual arousal is a frequent occurance. This is not a problem.

Mothers argue that it's natural, that it doesn't harm anybody and therefore there should be no problem with it. I agree - there should be no problem. But there is. Some... bodily functions are best not displayed in public.

And breastfeeding shouldn't be one of them!

I don't think it is that difficult to breast feed your baby in a way to avoid being seen by too many people.

Of course, when breastfeeding you shouldn't just go to a cafe patio, take off your top, and go wild. You shouldn't be expected to wear a burka and hide your child underneath, either.

A middle-ground compromise is best: one that allows women to breastfeed in public without having to worry, as long as they don't go out of their way to show off their boobs.

 

[BCLG100]

Don't mind it, especially if the woman is hot enough.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Oh, I can "follow" it alright. I merely disagree that provincial busybodies should be able to inflict their own morals on everybody else by using this law to persecute nursing mothers. And, fortunately, now they can no longer do so in 28 out of 50 states thanks to the efforts of many to change the law so it can no longer be misused in that manner. Hopefully, more states will follow suit as the public becomes better educated and less provincial.

Ok, so you disagree with something no one in this thread has posted.

Is it ok to have the opinion that discretion when breastfeeding is for the better?

How far are you willing to take this? Are bare breasts in public ok when not breastfeeding? What about exposed genitalia in public?

 

[cardgame]

.yes.

 

[warpus]

How far are you willing to take this? Are bare breasts in public ok when not breastfeeding? What about exposed genitalia in public?

Bare breasts are okay in public here in Ontario. Isn't this also true for most of Europe?

And what is your basis for equating genitalia with nipples? Please explain.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Ok, so you disagree with something no one in this thread has posted.

I guess it has completely escaped your notice that many provincial busybodies in the US use this law to persecute nursing mothers? Hmmm.

Is it ok to have the opinion that discretion when breastfeeding is for the better?

You are welcome to any opinion you wish to have. It doesn't bother me one bit if you personally disagree with me.

In case you somehow missed it, I do care that I think the law was being deliberately misused like this in most states until quite recently. Fortunately, I think sanity is eventually going to prevail as the public becomes better educated and less provincial in their attitudes - at least in the vast majority of states.

How far are you willing to take this? Are bare breasts in public ok when not breastfeeding?

I'm all for bare breasts since I think they are clearly not sexual organs. But that's just my opinion and apparently most of Europe. YMMV.

What about exposed genitalia in public?

I have no problems with it, especially at the beach. I personally find it hilarious that so many people are so uptight about the human body.

 

[Lord Gay]

I don't have any issue with it. It's not we haven't seen tits before. Hell, I have no problems if women want to go topless in general. I think that we tend to make a bigger deal about than we should.

No part of the human body should continue to be subject to shame.

These.

http://www.ncsl.org/issuesresearch/health/breastfeedinglaws/tabid/14389/default.aspx

Thanks for sharing that.

I wouldn't have expected to agree with you of all people on this issue You really are turning into a bleeding-heart liberal

Shhhh! I have recently initiated a covert operation whereby I've switched Agent's regular coffee with Liberal Indoctrination Blend (AKA tea). So far, he hasn't noticed the difference. Don't tell him!

Crikey, in South London, I have seen multiple people masterbate in public

Um... where uh... where might that be? Just, idle curiosity you understand.

Bonus questions: What are your views on breastfeeding, and how long (if at all) do you think it should continue?

Fun video:


Link to video.

 

[Winner]

I work at a university campus and as such am frequently in contact with scantily clad ladies with curvatious bodies. Sexual arousal is a frequent occurance. This is not a problem.

Read what I write. We wear clothes because it is customary to hide the parts of our bodies most related to sexuality. Uncovering as much as possible without breaking the convention is what's making it fun

And sex is not the only reason. I am pretty sure I wouldn't like to see many people naked.

And breastfeeding shouldn't be one of them!

Why not? Because some women are absurdly treating this as a matter of their gender rights or whatever it's called now?

Of course, when breastfeeding you shouldn't just go to a cafe patio, take off your top, and go wild. You shouldn't be expected to wear a burka and hide your child underneath, either.

Yeah, women wearing burkas is TOTALLY what I am arguing for here

I am simply asking for little decency. They should try to do it discretely - they don't have to flaunt the fact that they can use their milk producing glands

A middle-ground compromise is best: one that allows women to breastfeed in public without having to worry, as long as they don't go out of their way to show off their boobs.

That's acceptable to me. It's not really something I'd get worked up over.

There is one thing here, however: many people seem to believe that being opposed to this is a sign of being too prude, that the only reason is "hey, women showing off boobs, sex, satan, jesus help us!" nonsense. I for one don't see anything sexual about that. To me at least it's pretty anti-sexual to see their swollen veiny breasts being sucked by infants. Bleh. I'd rather keep that image out of my mind, in the same way I am trying to forget the real childbirth video I saw at high school. Gods, that was disgusting.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I'm all for bare breasts since I think they are clearly not sexual organs. But that's just my opinion and apparently most of Europe. YMMV.

I have no problems with it, especially at the beach. I personally find it hilarious that so many people are so uptight about the human body.

This is not a problem here in Sweden at least. Being topless at the beach is ok, we also have nudist beaches and people respect that. I guess we have some laws to prevent "flashers" and people wanting to express their natural beauty to kindergarten children.

This and common decency is enough for me and it has nothing to do with being prude.

From time to time there's some leftwing feminists flashing their breasts in the city to make some statement, I think it was to desexualize women's breast, but where's the fun in that? To me the female breast is a sexual organ. To a bushman - maybe not.

 

[Bill3000]

Social norms are stupid. Throw bricks at them.