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Bringing the Dead Back to Life

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by iggymnrr, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Has anyone ever brought a dead AI back to life successfully? I tried this when I liberated a captured city and a dead AI reappeared. He was friendly so I gave him money and signed an RA. Next turn he DOWed me.
     
  2. Cpt. Calavera

    Cpt. Calavera Chieftain

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    Well, judging by what Hollywood taught us you can never trust someone who's back from the dead.
     
  3. wannabewarlord

    wannabewarlord Prince

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    Zombie civs! Offer him brains (secret resource!) and he will stay friendly.
     
  4. JeanBaptiste

    JeanBaptiste Warlord

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    I usually only do it in the late game (deity) when I'm rushing towards the last capitals and don't need more puppets (and unhappiness). One benefit of the liberation can be that it 'kicks' out all of the enemy so that you can re-group your troops and create a temporary 'wall'. I think that you as the liberator immediately get open borders but not the other AI's

    However it's absurd that when you 'liberate' an AI they can denounce you the next turn, due to your neg. diplomacy points you've been collecting during that game. Even if the civ was annihilated in the ancient era!

    This need to be fixed so that you can at least gain something out of it. I believe MadDjinn has written about this in his re-balancing posts on his blog. One idea was to bring back something like the old Civ4 vassal state. Sounds like a great idea.
     
  5. CoolLizy

    CoolLizy King

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    I once liberated the same civ multiple times in one game. They'd stick around awhile, usually denouncing me or some other nonsense, and then they'd get conquered again by someone else. Rinse and repeat. The only reason I helped them out was because my puppet empire was already straining from the weight every time I was at war with someone and happened upon one of their former cities.
     
  6. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    Why would a civ that you've liberated denounce or DoW you? You'd assume they'd be forever in your debt, unless you do something douche-y like attack them or denounce them.
     
  7. nanomage

    nanomage Longbowman

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    That just isn't handled properly, i guess we might regard the liberation mechanics as a placeholder.
    They just look at your dip modifiers and see that you're a warmonger, you had gone to war with them in the past, you own lands they covet and so on. Maybe it throws in a positive modifier for granting independence, i don't know for sure, but it doesn't really matter.
     
  8. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    That doesn't really make sense to me. If I could change the sytem, I'd probably use either of the following ways to depict a liberation:
    1. You start with a clean sheet (kind of like when you liberate a city state)
    2. Same as the status quo, but the liberation modifier is EXTREMELY high
     
  9. wannabewarlord

    wannabewarlord Prince

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    Except when you liberate a city state you don't start with a clean sheet but are immediately their ally (dunno exactly at how many points).

    Liberating someone is a good deed and should be rewarded. Such is the case with city states. Liberating a conquered Civ makes not much sense to me. Once the Ottomans are gone, they are gone. Can't create new Ottomans out of Romans :lol:
     
  10. CoolLizy

    CoolLizy King

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    So the French are gone now? I was not informed of this.
     
  11. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I used to liberate them all the time. One time I liberated Inca & Chinas on contient 2, to keep a balance of power so I could cruise to the finish. I even gifted my entire invasion force, it was late game units and promoted. The problem was they could not make more units themselves because they were stuck in the stone age. So, their ae old conquerer just conquered them again once the all my gifted units were dead.
     
  12. XRW175P6MQ4

    XRW175P6MQ4 Warlord

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    No, they're still around. A man/woman can dream though.

    Actually it makes a lot of sense. France got liberated and they started denouncing the turn after.

    OT: I never liberate. The dead can't tell the other AI's how much of a bastard I've been. I've been playing on continents lately. I try to delay meeting the civs on other continents until the ones on mine are dead. This way I don't get the warmonger status with as many civs.
     
  13. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Like Jean, I find liberation to be a tactical value in not only giving me a little bit of space (or buffer) but also buying a little bit of time, not to mention an open land to pass through or as a landing site.
     
  14. wannabewarlord

    wannabewarlord Prince

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    Relevant much?
     
  15. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    I suppose a person can bring back a dead AI in hopes that the party that killed it will kill it again for another diplo hit. Might be a useful distraction if aiming for anything but domination.
     
  16. lilnev

    lilnev King

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    A free tech every 30 turns is a pretty good reason to raise the dead. OK, not free, you might even have to gift them the gold for their share (though typically you can at least get some gpt) and sometimes kick in an extra 100 gold if they don't like you. Still, 700 gold for a late-game tech is a heckuva deal.

    They shouldn't be DoWing you, because you'll have a full-sized army and they won't. The problem I've had is that other AIs see this pathetic weakling, just back from the dead, and they immediately try to wipe it out again. You may have to post a few sentries to restrict access.
     
  17. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    The French were occupied by the Germans in WW2, but I get your point (Vichy France was still "free", despite being a puppet state).

    Personally I think Poland is a better example: it was wiped off the map in 1795, liberated by Napoleon in 1805 (I think. It was called the principality of Warsaw back then), partitioned again in 1815, liberated after WW1, partitioned again in WW2, under Soviet occupation during the cold war and now independant again. Even after being occupied time and again it's still the same Poland with the same Polish language, Polish culture and Polish religion (Catholocism, despite being occupied by both Protestants and Orthodox Christians).
     
  18. wannabewarlord

    wannabewarlord Prince

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    @Bamboocha thanks for the history lesson :)

    I got the point what he was trying to say. However, it seems CoolLizy didn't get the point what I was trying to say. But no matter; it's hardly worth discussing.

    I just don't see the sense in the mechanic of liberating a CIV that you (or someone else) killed and I don't do it. But I guess it doesn't hurt my play at all to have the possibility. So go nuts! :goodjob:
     
  19. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    I guess there'd be some sense in it, it can act as:
    1. Another vote for a diplo victory
    2. A buffer against an aggressive neighbour (Think Turkey as a buffer between the EU and Arab world)
    3. Another ally, which will keep stronger civs from declaring war on you (as your protegé is guaranteed to assist you. Think NATO post WW2)

    This is all, of course, assuming the diplomacy system works properly.
     
  20. CoolLizy

    CoolLizy King

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    It can also act as a chance to yank another city or two away from a rival empire that your empire can't support at the moment because of unhappiness. Whether or not you go in and reconquer it for yourself later, it's one less city the enemy has at their disposal for the moment.
     

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