Bully Pays the Price When Victim Fights Back

[downtown]

The bullied kid deserves no punishment. He was provoked. That much was clear. The rest was self-defense.

How schools excuse bullying is very sad.

DT, you know darn well most school admins turn a blind eye towards bullying. I learned that the only way to stop the bullying was to hurt the bully.

I do know a lot of schools write it off, and I think it's very sad. We're starting to see some good anti-bullying movements right now...the AFT has been giving seminars on it the past month, and I prob had more professional development on bullying than I did for say, reading instruction.

The guy still needs to be punished though, because that sort of behavior can't really be incentived on school grounds. Little kids can have pretty warped senses of justice, so teaching them that violence can be "ok" can lead to some nasty consequences.

In the united states, if that bully was injured, the school would be liable for damages too. Nobody really wins then.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

He shouldn't have been suspended, and its not a crime, I see it as self defense, here in Bosnia, you dont get punishments for fighting, fighting happens regularly, its like a jail in school, the only way to defend yourself is to bee good with stronger people that protect you or be strong yourself, If you fight in school it may be punishable, 2 meters from school grounds its not.

 

[downtown]

If you fight in school it may be punishable

And this fight was in school.

Whether or not something is a crime is irrelevant when deciding if a schoolkid should be punished for it.

 

[Aegis]

Being passive only encourages more bullying, so good for him. The bully got what he deserved.

 

[Brighteye]

I think they were trying to provoke a violent response... If not, the fatty will be shunned even more as word gets around of the incident, as he has now made a name for himself as a violent moody loner.

Not necessarily. It is quite possible to live a fulfilling childhood whilst also having a reputation for beating up bullies. The bullies will try to pass him off as a violent, moody loner, because that suits their purpose: it implicitly says that people should allow themselves to be bullied, it continues the bullying against him, and it makes them feel powerful and unbeaten because they are dismissing what is an outright destruction of their attempts to prove themselves superior.
Not every other student the fat boy will meet will have the same attitude.

The victim must have not slammed the bully on that concrete as hard as it looked, because that was extremely dangerous. It would have been a shame if he accidentally killed the kid and received criminal punishment for excessive use of force or something. He probably needs punishment, even if just minor, just to know that while defending yourself is okay, what he did was probably too much.

He did too little. That little bully punched him a fair few times. I would have (and have) returned at least as much, including breaking nose and teeth. Of course, later on I was more careful because I knew how much damage a good punch could do and I knew how little threat others' generally were (they were often just passing the time, not being vindictive).

But this fat guy has not been violent before (I gather from the story). He has to defend himself and can quite legitimately argue that he has no way of judging reasonable force. He needs to ensure that every little brat who is attacking him is rendered completely incapable of doing so again. I'd have put a boot in while the boy was on the floor. A nice kick to the balls would have kept him down.

As satisfying as it is to see the kid body slam the bully, he really does need to be suspended. If the bully ISN'T though, I'd raise hell with the school board.

The fat boy needs no punishment at all. The law allows private citizens to defend themselves. If a school refuses that right to children then we should prosecute the teachers for child abuse.

What message does that send to every kid who has the idea that they are in some way being victimised, whether they really are or not?

What message does it send to victimizers? That the crime is really when someone responds to them!?

 

[Brighteye]

Little kids can have pretty warped senses of justice, so teaching them that violence can be "ok" can lead to some nasty consequences.

Who gets to define 'warped'? My experience is that little boys often have their hearts in exactly the right place, but need to think about it more carefully to give their ideas more precision.

What sort of nasty consequences are you thinking of? The ones where bullies make others' lives a misery for a decade or two, protected by their victims' dilemma of suffering from the bully or suffering from the school?

 

[GenMarshall]

We're starting to see some good anti-bullying movements right now...

Personally, as a victim of being bullied in school, I'd see the anti-bullying movement coming to late. If the anti-bullying movement came about when I was going to school, I would not have had the emotional and psychological scars.

The fat boy needs no punishment at all. The law allows private citizens to defend themselves. If a school refuses that right to children then we should prosecute the teachers for child abuse.

I 100% agree to this.

 

[downtown]

The fat boy needs no punishment at all. The law allows private citizens to defend themselves. If a school refuses that right to children then we should prosecute the teachers for child abuse.

But not necessarily to defend yourself using disproportionate force. The skinny kid punched him. The fat kid could have broken his back by throwing him into a concrete sidewalk.

What sort of nasty consequences are you thinking of? The ones where bullies make others' lives a misery for a decade or two, protected by their victims' dilemma of suffering from the bully or suffering from the school?

I'm thinking of more violence in school. If punching a bully who is physically messing with another kid is okay, is it okay to punch a kid who steals something? Who calls a kid names? Who you perceive is just "messing" with you or a friend? Where I taught, all of the students thought violence was acceptable in all of those situations, because "they had the right to defend themselves", whether there was an actual threat or not (because little boys aren't always able to differentiate between the two). The result was constant violence.

The adults here clearly screwed up, because they have a responsibility to protect the fat kid, and they should be held accountable. I think an appropriate message is to give the fat kid a small punishment (a 1 day suspension that gets waived from his record after the year, followed by a conversation with the boy, his teacher, and his parents), and I'd give the skinny kid a week.

 

[MeteorPunch]

The bullied became the bully and went beyond what was necessary to show that he was the big dog.

I'm glad he had an epiphany, "Wait a sec! by jove I don't have to take this..." but breaking that little weaklings leg and nose is pure brutality.

 

[Aegis]

The bullied became the bully and went beyond what was necessary to show that he was the big dog.

I'm glad he had an epiphany, "Wait a sec! by jove I don't have to take this..." but breaking that little weaklings leg and nose is pure brutality.

I take it that you have never lived for several years under the shadow of bullying before.

Fighting back =\= bullying.

Bullying is seeking out someone who is mentally/physically weaker than you are and picking a fight.

 

[warpus]

Honestly, the fat kid's a hero. He exercised duty to retreat, then stood his ground, then kicked his ass.

Agreed.

The only way to stop bullying is to stand up to bullies and kick their arses. If the school can't be bothered to do anything about bullying (and from my experience school administrators more often than not do not really care to do anything about it) you GOTTA fight back.

That's the advice I would give to my kid, if I had one.. If someone starts bullying you, FIGHT BACK.. They'll leave you alone and move on to an easier target.

 

[bombshoo]

He did too little. That little bully punched him a fair few times. I would have (and have) returned at least as much, including breaking nose and teeth. Of course, later on I was more careful because I knew how much damage a good punch could do and I knew how little threat others' generally were (they were often just passing the time, not being vindictive).

That head slam was extremely dangerous and the bully is lucky he could still get up as is. Whether or not the bully deserved more or the victim did enough is not the issue, but the last thing anyone wants is to accidentally kill someone. I have the good of everyone on mind here. Hopefully the victim will know that what he did is dangerous before he ends up in jail for just trying to defend himself.

 

[bhsup]

When a fight occurs in a school, should both parties be suspended or only the instigator?

"...when another kid started punching him in the face..."

Assault is a crime. No, only the instigator should be punished. The victim is the one who has to defend themselves and should not be punished, even if they leave the assailant a bloody pulp. If you don't want to get beat to a bloody pulp, don't attack someone out of the blue.

 

[Aegis]

That head slam was extremely dangerous and the bully is lucky he could still get up as is. Whether or not the bully deserved more or the victim did enough is not the issue, but the last thing anyone wants is to accidentally kill someone. I have the good of everyone on mind here. Hopefully the victim will know that what he did is dangerous before he ends up in jail for just trying to defend himself.

Picking a fight with someone who is much bigger than you are is also dangerous. The victim reacted to and eliminated the threat the best way that he could and then de-escalated the situation by walking away. If it were me, I probably would have added a few kicks to the ribs/face for good measure, but I'm vindictive in that way.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

nice. our society needs more violence towards bullies.

 

[bombshoo]

Picking a fight with someone who is much bigger than you are is also dangerous. The victim reacted to and eliminated the threat the best way that he could and then de-escalated the situation by walking away. If it were me, I probably would have added a few kicks to the ribs/face for good measure, but I'm vindictive in that way.

Yes, I agree but I think my point is still being missed here. I'm not saying the victim did anything wrong here in any moral sense (I am still calling him the "victim" after all) but that doesn't change the fact that slamming peoples' heads into the ground is a great way to kill people, and whether they deserve it or not, accidentally killing someone would have the potential to be life ruining from a legal, psychological and social standpoint for the victim. Do I think the victim needs some sort of excessive punishment or jail time or something? No. I just think he needs a talking too where it is explained how dangerous what he did is. I suppose in a perfect world, his parents would enroll him in some self defense classes after this so he can learn to channel his obvious strength into safer but still effective methods of defense.

 

[MobBoss]

Someone needs to sent that to Obama to let him know thats how you stop bullying, not all that other crap he is trying to do. Just give those being bullied some self-defense classes and then turn em loose.

As to the punishment, I got mixed feelings. If the school kicks only one out and not the other, then it gives the impression it partially condones violence, even if in self-defense. Its also been an age old tradition in school to punish anyone swinging a fist as equally as possible, whether they threw the first punch or last. I'm not sure showing a zero tolerance for stuff like that on school grounds is a wrong answer.

 

[JerichoHill]

What message does that send to every kid who has the idea that they are in some way being victimised, whether they really are or not?

If the schools took proactive stances on bullying, what I learned would not have been necessary. At least when I was in school, no school administrator confronted any instance of bullying with anything but a slap on the wrist. Only when I fought back did the bullying cease.

A victim of an attack has a RIGHT to defend themselves. DT, anti-bullying efforts haven't sunk in, I've talked to my nephews about how its okay to fight back and they were afraid of the school punishing them because they would hit the person hitting them. Bump that.

When adults in schools stand up to bullying, I'll change my stance on fighting back. Until then, no way.

 

[MobBoss]

If the schools took proactive stances on bullying, what I learned would not have been necessary. At least when I was in school, no school administrator confronted any instance of bullying with anything but a slap on the wrist. Only when I fought back did the bullying cease.

You cant really stop bullying however, as kids dont live at school 24/7, and teachers cant be everywhere, and they certainly dont see every instance when a kid gets his books knocked out of his hands, or tripped or whatever.

The only tried and true way to stop bullying is for the kid being bullied to stand up for themselves in some fashion. If you stop being low hanging fruit, you typically stop getting picked (on).

 

[downtown]

I've talked to my nephews about how its okay to fight back and they were afraid of the school punishing them because they would hit the person hitting them. Bump that.

Then have 'em fight outside of the school grounds. Otherwise, your nephews would be correct in worrying about being punished.