By a Single Decision (Alternate History)
- Thread starter das
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das
Regeneration In Process
They would have been happy to retake Italy, but, firstly, currently their attention is on the Middle East, and, secondly, they really don't feel like they could retake it yet, after all the Lombard forces are still quite formidable while the Byzantines are weakened temporarily by the Egyptian War.
das
Regeneration In Process
Further comments?
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
DO CHINA!!!!!! that's all i have to say or the polar bears gets it in north king's nes... more then they already did
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Excellent update Das, it's good to see that the Byzantines (My favorite country) are still going strong. It would be nice to get an update of what's going on in Italy and Spain at the moment. How are the fortunes of the Lombards going following the collapse of the Western Caliphate? Also, I agree about China, and it would be nice to hear about Japan as well. What if, in a really Alternate moment, the Japanese decide to drop the feudal warfare and isolationism that have characterized them for centuries?
All in all, it'll be interesting to see what happens in Asia.
All in all, it'll be interesting to see what happens in Asia.
das
Regeneration In Process
I am currently working on a few Vinland-related chapters and something on the "Skraelings".
China will come, eventually (actually, probably after the Skraeling chapter), as will Lombardy and Japan. And Andalusia/Spain, too.
China will come, eventually (actually, probably after the Skraeling chapter), as will Lombardy and Japan. And Andalusia/Spain, too.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
das, work faster!!!! or the Maluk of Syria will die of blue pottery lead poisoning!
das
Regeneration In Process
Ahiram is not as easy to kill as Yusuf, alex. Ahiram IS a cunning Phoenicean merchant after all, these people are used to blue pottery lead poisoning.
But I'm RIGHT NOW busy with the BT II.
But I'm RIGHT NOW busy with the BT II.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
i meant after the great BT II which will undoubtedly end in Han's collaspe unless the Great Mod Lord of the Polar Bears decide to let this humble adobe of Penguin worshipping to live... 
das
Regeneration In Process
Chapter Eighty Eight.
Since the times of Erik the Red and Khalid, the people of western Europe - or at least those in Viking Britain and Muslim Spain - were quite aware of the great western land. Some called it "Vinland", some "Carib Sea Islands", "Mayastan" and "Toltestan".
Regardless of name and actual location, those lands had much to offer. The Vikings, a sea-faring people, could hardly have found a greater blessing then Vinland - for there was much, much wood, strong wood besides that. So much wood that according to some sources there were at some point "more ships then crews" in the posession of Rjolf II. There was also much fur... And all this, though, was too much for the Vinlanders themselves to use. Thus - trade. With Viking Britain and with Denmark, and with the Magyar realms, the Vinlanders exchanged furs and lumber for iron and horses, and other lifestock, on which they were at first rather short. Much iron and lifestock later would go to native tribes, in exchange for the furs that... etc.
The Arab and Berber colonists, for their part, both before and after the coming of the Mazzutid Sultanate, too needed some goods from Europe, though not as much as of 1010. But back home... they brought there, apart from syphilis and some other nasty diseases that contributed to the fall of the Western Caliphate, a variety of new luxury goods. For instance, the bitter drink of shokatla (chocolate), and its later-coming sweeter varieties, replaced or at least became equal to sherbet in Morocco and its richer Cordovan counterpart. Potato, corn, and other such too became, with time, important components of agriculture in western Muslim and Magyar lands. All this gave the colonists much gold. The gold went on acquiring more goods to send east.
Normally that would have been all needed for trade - demand, supply and equivalents to trade in. But the trans-Atlantic trade, at first anyway, had another very important problem - transportation. The stormy sea sunk many a Viking and Muslim ship in the early days, and this prompted the design of new ones. Bigger, stronger, faster - and most importantly, safer - ships were designed. Longboats remained for coastal and riverine travel, and for raiding, and for naval combat, but for trans-Atlantic trade, the Vikings designed "greatboats" that were less agile and less maneuverable, but had a greater transport capacity and greater endurance. With all the lumber shipped in from the mainland colonies, Vinland was quite capable of building such giant ships. The Muslims, always good learners, too improved the "khalid" ships along the same lines, making them much more endurable - and later, as piracy intensified, also designed smaller, faster ships to protect their trade.
Trade prospered, and filled the coffers of the Muzzatids and the Vinlanders. While it allowed peaceful internal development for the former, the latter used it for other goals. Some of these goals came from their own initiative, but others came from neccesity...
Since the times of Erik the Red and Khalid, the people of western Europe - or at least those in Viking Britain and Muslim Spain - were quite aware of the great western land. Some called it "Vinland", some "Carib Sea Islands", "Mayastan" and "Toltestan".
Regardless of name and actual location, those lands had much to offer. The Vikings, a sea-faring people, could hardly have found a greater blessing then Vinland - for there was much, much wood, strong wood besides that. So much wood that according to some sources there were at some point "more ships then crews" in the posession of Rjolf II. There was also much fur... And all this, though, was too much for the Vinlanders themselves to use. Thus - trade. With Viking Britain and with Denmark, and with the Magyar realms, the Vinlanders exchanged furs and lumber for iron and horses, and other lifestock, on which they were at first rather short. Much iron and lifestock later would go to native tribes, in exchange for the furs that... etc.
The Arab and Berber colonists, for their part, both before and after the coming of the Mazzutid Sultanate, too needed some goods from Europe, though not as much as of 1010. But back home... they brought there, apart from syphilis and some other nasty diseases that contributed to the fall of the Western Caliphate, a variety of new luxury goods. For instance, the bitter drink of shokatla (chocolate), and its later-coming sweeter varieties, replaced or at least became equal to sherbet in Morocco and its richer Cordovan counterpart. Potato, corn, and other such too became, with time, important components of agriculture in western Muslim and Magyar lands. All this gave the colonists much gold. The gold went on acquiring more goods to send east.
Normally that would have been all needed for trade - demand, supply and equivalents to trade in. But the trans-Atlantic trade, at first anyway, had another very important problem - transportation. The stormy sea sunk many a Viking and Muslim ship in the early days, and this prompted the design of new ones. Bigger, stronger, faster - and most importantly, safer - ships were designed. Longboats remained for coastal and riverine travel, and for raiding, and for naval combat, but for trans-Atlantic trade, the Vikings designed "greatboats" that were less agile and less maneuverable, but had a greater transport capacity and greater endurance. With all the lumber shipped in from the mainland colonies, Vinland was quite capable of building such giant ships. The Muslims, always good learners, too improved the "khalid" ships along the same lines, making them much more endurable - and later, as piracy intensified, also designed smaller, faster ships to protect their trade.
Trade prospered, and filled the coffers of the Muzzatids and the Vinlanders. While it allowed peaceful internal development for the former, the latter used it for other goals. Some of these goals came from their own initiative, but others came from neccesity...
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
planning to continue das?
das
Regeneration In Process
Chapter Eighty Nine.
With all that trade going on, Vinland still had something of a backwater feel to it. Winters in Vinland were not quite as bad as in say Norway, or certain parts of Britain, but they weren't very pleasant neither. The land itself could easily sustain the initial small population of a few thousands, but as it grew, first from Celtic/Saxon imigration and also from natural reasons, new lands needed to be conquered. At first it was Vorland, indeed, for many years it was just Vorland that was being colonized. It was colder then Vinland, but it had plenty of wood, and furs could be traded with the natives, who by then begun to recover from the early diseases.
Vinland continued to prosper from the trade indeed, but due to the storms and all that, not even with the greatboats did that trade get very constant. It was still profitable, but it only strenghthened Vinland's backwater feel. This eventually forced such desperate souls as the Celtic immigrant Brian Neill to start expeditions to explore new lands. Brian Neill is not only the best example, but also the most unusual, as most Celts were indeed lumberjacks in early Vinland - that, at least, was their stereotype. His father, however, gained respect of Vikings and Celts alike having fought bravely at Rejkjavik, and thus his son's status was rather odd. Either way, Brian Neill, his supporters and two longboats sailed south, discovering the Skraeling River (OTL St. Lawrence River), thus-named for the many "Skraelings" roaming there (later, ofcourse, the Vikings identified those local Skraelings as "Vinns", a completely different type of people, but they kept the river name anyway). He also explored Brianland (OTL Acadia). With new discoveries, came new trade, and gradually, by 1010 a fortified trade post was built at Skrelborg (OTL Quebec), evolving into a town as time went.
Politically, during all this time the Rjolfssons/Brelings ruled. Two of them, anyway. Rjolf I, who fled from Britain, ruled quite well, encouraging trade, expressing religious tolerance (he himself was a Norse polytheist) and overseeing colonization of the coast. Rjolf II, a more warlike person, and also a Norse polytheist, initiated up to 1015 a series of raids on the various Skraelings, antagonizing them somewhat, but using this as an excuse to ally with the enemies of the attacked tribes. A great war fleet was assembled by Rjolf II, he also however helped the assembly of a greatboat trade fleet. Christianity was looked down upon, but as long as those Christians were just as good in every other regard as a normal Viking warrior, it didn't really matter to Rjolf. Religiously, in Vinland Celtic Christianity and its much less ascetic variety, the Viking Christianity were just about the only types present. Celtic Christians largely lived in Vorland, apart from some monks on the island of St. Patrick (OTL St. Pierre). Viking Christianity was understandably more widespread in Vinland itself. But a majority of Vinlanders nonetheless was Norse polytheist. Religious strife was rare so far, but not unknown.
This was Vinland, a country of promise.
So it was that this Vinland soon came into its first serious collision with the natives.
With all that trade going on, Vinland still had something of a backwater feel to it. Winters in Vinland were not quite as bad as in say Norway, or certain parts of Britain, but they weren't very pleasant neither. The land itself could easily sustain the initial small population of a few thousands, but as it grew, first from Celtic/Saxon imigration and also from natural reasons, new lands needed to be conquered. At first it was Vorland, indeed, for many years it was just Vorland that was being colonized. It was colder then Vinland, but it had plenty of wood, and furs could be traded with the natives, who by then begun to recover from the early diseases.
Vinland continued to prosper from the trade indeed, but due to the storms and all that, not even with the greatboats did that trade get very constant. It was still profitable, but it only strenghthened Vinland's backwater feel. This eventually forced such desperate souls as the Celtic immigrant Brian Neill to start expeditions to explore new lands. Brian Neill is not only the best example, but also the most unusual, as most Celts were indeed lumberjacks in early Vinland - that, at least, was their stereotype. His father, however, gained respect of Vikings and Celts alike having fought bravely at Rejkjavik, and thus his son's status was rather odd. Either way, Brian Neill, his supporters and two longboats sailed south, discovering the Skraeling River (OTL St. Lawrence River), thus-named for the many "Skraelings" roaming there (later, ofcourse, the Vikings identified those local Skraelings as "Vinns", a completely different type of people, but they kept the river name anyway). He also explored Brianland (OTL Acadia). With new discoveries, came new trade, and gradually, by 1010 a fortified trade post was built at Skrelborg (OTL Quebec), evolving into a town as time went.
Politically, during all this time the Rjolfssons/Brelings ruled. Two of them, anyway. Rjolf I, who fled from Britain, ruled quite well, encouraging trade, expressing religious tolerance (he himself was a Norse polytheist) and overseeing colonization of the coast. Rjolf II, a more warlike person, and also a Norse polytheist, initiated up to 1015 a series of raids on the various Skraelings, antagonizing them somewhat, but using this as an excuse to ally with the enemies of the attacked tribes. A great war fleet was assembled by Rjolf II, he also however helped the assembly of a greatboat trade fleet. Christianity was looked down upon, but as long as those Christians were just as good in every other regard as a normal Viking warrior, it didn't really matter to Rjolf. Religiously, in Vinland Celtic Christianity and its much less ascetic variety, the Viking Christianity were just about the only types present. Celtic Christians largely lived in Vorland, apart from some monks on the island of St. Patrick (OTL St. Pierre). Viking Christianity was understandably more widespread in Vinland itself. But a majority of Vinlanders nonetheless was Norse polytheist. Religious strife was rare so far, but not unknown.
This was Vinland, a country of promise.
So it was that this Vinland soon came into its first serious collision with the natives.
das
Regeneration In Process
Does that answer your question Alex?
blackheart
unenlightened
Lord_Iggy said:
I'm Canadian too, if you consider that Canada is part of America.
das
Regeneration In Process
Chapter Ninety.
The Mingans. I mentioned them a lot of times, so I think it is now a good time to mention them again, especially as something interesting now happened.
But before we get to that - who were Mingans? Well, first of all, they were "Skraelings" - that was the name initially applied by the Vikings to all the natives of Helegsland (as the entire continent known in OTL as "North America" was known to the Vikings; later this became the Viking name for North America or the common name for the Viking parts of it). More specifically, they were "Vinns" (which is considered an ethnic group encompassing, roughly, OTL Algonquin-speaking tribes), which differentiated them from the true Skraelings (i.e. Inuits). An interesting difference between Skraelings and Vinns was also in how Vinlanders treated them - Skraelings/Inuits were their sworn enemies, but the Vinns were, mostly, trading partners.
What made them stand out was this - they were closer then any other Vinns to Vinland, living in "Minganland" as it was called by Vikings, just to the southwest from Vorland. I already explained the principles of Viking commerce in Helegsland before; they sold metal objects and horses and other Old World goods in exchange for, mostly, fur (and sometimes meat - not that they had much problems with it either way). This was mutually-profitable trade.
Eventually, ofcourse, it was also Viking ideas that reached the Mingans. This, combined with the fact that the world WAS indeed changing, caused the unification of Mingans as a tribal confederation in circa 990 AD. Another idea that came to them was a more developed concept of trade. Seeing that the furs and stuff were important for the Vinlanders, the Mingans begun slowly raising price on them... They learned the noble art of bargaining, too. Eventually, a bunch of irritated Viking merchants started a fistfight in 1019. One of them broke a minor chieftain's nose until they were subdued and, mostly, killed off. Their relatives for some reason weren't happy with this, and set out to avenge them. You see, under "relatives" I mean an entire Viking clan, which is quite a lot of people. They burned down three villages and then went home.
Thus started the Mingan War, though it perhaps is too loud a name for it. Raids, with the sanction of Rjolf II, continued, but eventually Mingans offered serious resistance. An entire raiding party was at some point surrounded and massacred; most others got away with minor casualties, but much more often then not had to abandon all loot to escape the Mingan pursuit. Eventually, Rjolf II decided to wipe out the Mingans and personally led a makeshift army against them. He attacked their main fortress/capital of Attikwa and with superior numbers, as well as with born Viking ferociousness, he overcame it. Mingans were slaughtered to a man, apart from women and children who were enslaved and herded back to Vinland. Minganland was subdued, and soon after fur trade switched to other, less organized nearby tribes.
It would have been something of a mere footnote if not for the important psychologic changes for the Vinlanders. Firstly, this conquest was to them like the first taste of human blood to a dog. If before that the Vinlanders, apart from occasional raids, were still mostly a nation of merchants and fishermen, now they again looked forward to war and raids, much as their ancestors did. Secondly, no longer were Vinns trade partners first and foremost; that is, trade went on largely as before, but Vinns were now seen as a threat, as a hostile nation. And finally... though Minganland was a little piece of land with not much profit coming from its control, the Vinlanders conquered it. Conquered new woods, new hunting grounds... new living space. Though overpopulation was hardly an issue thus far, the Vinlanders felt that still, they needed expansion. They needed conquest, they needed new lands. The Mingan War created in the Vinlanders the belief that they, the conquerors of Minganland, the vanquishers of Mingans, had a destiny.
A destiny of conquest.
The Mingans. I mentioned them a lot of times, so I think it is now a good time to mention them again, especially as something interesting now happened.
But before we get to that - who were Mingans? Well, first of all, they were "Skraelings" - that was the name initially applied by the Vikings to all the natives of Helegsland (as the entire continent known in OTL as "North America" was known to the Vikings; later this became the Viking name for North America or the common name for the Viking parts of it). More specifically, they were "Vinns" (which is considered an ethnic group encompassing, roughly, OTL Algonquin-speaking tribes), which differentiated them from the true Skraelings (i.e. Inuits). An interesting difference between Skraelings and Vinns was also in how Vinlanders treated them - Skraelings/Inuits were their sworn enemies, but the Vinns were, mostly, trading partners.
What made them stand out was this - they were closer then any other Vinns to Vinland, living in "Minganland" as it was called by Vikings, just to the southwest from Vorland. I already explained the principles of Viking commerce in Helegsland before; they sold metal objects and horses and other Old World goods in exchange for, mostly, fur (and sometimes meat - not that they had much problems with it either way). This was mutually-profitable trade.
Eventually, ofcourse, it was also Viking ideas that reached the Mingans. This, combined with the fact that the world WAS indeed changing, caused the unification of Mingans as a tribal confederation in circa 990 AD. Another idea that came to them was a more developed concept of trade. Seeing that the furs and stuff were important for the Vinlanders, the Mingans begun slowly raising price on them... They learned the noble art of bargaining, too. Eventually, a bunch of irritated Viking merchants started a fistfight in 1019. One of them broke a minor chieftain's nose until they were subdued and, mostly, killed off. Their relatives for some reason weren't happy with this, and set out to avenge them. You see, under "relatives" I mean an entire Viking clan, which is quite a lot of people. They burned down three villages and then went home.
Thus started the Mingan War, though it perhaps is too loud a name for it. Raids, with the sanction of Rjolf II, continued, but eventually Mingans offered serious resistance. An entire raiding party was at some point surrounded and massacred; most others got away with minor casualties, but much more often then not had to abandon all loot to escape the Mingan pursuit. Eventually, Rjolf II decided to wipe out the Mingans and personally led a makeshift army against them. He attacked their main fortress/capital of Attikwa and with superior numbers, as well as with born Viking ferociousness, he overcame it. Mingans were slaughtered to a man, apart from women and children who were enslaved and herded back to Vinland. Minganland was subdued, and soon after fur trade switched to other, less organized nearby tribes.
It would have been something of a mere footnote if not for the important psychologic changes for the Vinlanders. Firstly, this conquest was to them like the first taste of human blood to a dog. If before that the Vinlanders, apart from occasional raids, were still mostly a nation of merchants and fishermen, now they again looked forward to war and raids, much as their ancestors did. Secondly, no longer were Vinns trade partners first and foremost; that is, trade went on largely as before, but Vinns were now seen as a threat, as a hostile nation. And finally... though Minganland was a little piece of land with not much profit coming from its control, the Vinlanders conquered it. Conquered new woods, new hunting grounds... new living space. Though overpopulation was hardly an issue thus far, the Vinlanders felt that still, they needed expansion. They needed conquest, they needed new lands. The Mingan War created in the Vinlanders the belief that they, the conquerors of Minganland, the vanquishers of Mingans, had a destiny.
A destiny of conquest.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
Lord_Iggy said:
i think he means part of the AMERICAN continent
das
Regeneration In Process
Clearly, its the other way around... America being a part of Canada. At least that makes more sense to me...
