Byzantine, Carthaginian, and Vietnamese Units

[phungus420]

You would only need to set them up for the War Elephant Entry for Vietnam in the Ethnic art file.

 

[The Capo]

This Trung sister thing just gets better and better. I have absolutely no need for them, but Im going to have to put them in as Vietnam's war elephants. But one trung sister model is no good. So is there anyway to get them both to show in the mesh without having to alter the UnitInfos for War Elephant and all 41 ethnic elephant entries in my UnitArtStyleType????

No.

(10 chars)

 

[achilleszero]

You would only need to set them up for the War Elephant Entry for Vietnam in the Ethnic art file.

I tried that already, but it only gives me one of the models. But changing both the UnitInfos and UnitArtStyle gives me both. So I guess I just need to double up all the Elephants' meshes.

 

[Acronym2]

This is slightly off-topic, but still related to the Trung sisters, for those who are interested. The Chinese barely make mention of even defeating the Trung sisters, but the way the Trung sisters were defeated according to Vietnamese legend is... slightly comical, to say the least. Apparently, according to the Vietnamese, the Chinese got fed up with the Trung sisters and sent Ma Yuan, one of their better generals, to finish off the job. Ma Yuan apparently still couldn't defeat an army of mostly women, so he ingeniuosly told his soldiers to strip naked.

Somehow the Vietnamese women, who had fought tons of battles with presumedly great courage and bravery, they could not take the sight of the naked Chinese soldiers, so they fled the battle and the Trung sisters lost.

Personally to me that sounds pretty ridiculous, but just goes to show how even for us Vietnamese it's hard to know much about our own heroes and heroines.

Say, this whole background on the Vietnamese Trung Sisters is very educational. Sometimes one can learn a great deal about other cultures and history while working on something Civ IV. (Perhaps the story of their defeat has lost some of its true meaning over the years......it would probably make more sense if we knew more about Vietnamese culture and tradition as it was at that time.)

(Oh, and yes.....we Americans are, in general, a little more hung up on things like nudity, etc. than Europeans. There is a large segment of the population that ascribes to a more conservative/evangelist morality. I can remember a push to try and close a nude beach in New Smyrna while I was living in Florida in the 1990's on the grounds that some felt it was immoral and offensive. They were not successful at the time, but they may have been able to do it later when Jeb Bush became Governor.)

 

[The Capo]

I'm sure the original story of the Chinese soldiers going into battle naked to scare off the vietnamese female warriors was a way to paint the Chinese as barbaric/uncivilized/dishonorable/schemers while the Vietnamese women were chaste and virtuous and of course feared. At least that is how it seems.

 

[cybrxkhan]

^That's not an impossible theory, given how nationalistic the Vietnamese culture in and of itself (and not just the people) tend to be. Actually I wouldn't be too surprised myself if that were the truth. I mean if you really wanted to sum up the Vietnamese spirit in a couple of words, "We're not China!!!!!!!!!!!" probably could work.

However, from what I've read, the reason for this could more likely be the fact that later Vietnamese scholars, influenced by the (ironically Chinese) Confucian beliefs, wanted to portray these women as, well, proper women, as if these later scholars wanted to portray the Trung sisters and their women-army as being strong and masculine and brave and all, but still feminine. Kind of as if the scholars found it hard to believe that even strong and brave women could be so much like men.

More likely than not, the Chinese general, Ma Yuan, probably won against the Trung sisters for more mundane reasons, rather than using so unorthodox and just plain weird a tactic.

Doesn't make the Trung sisters any less interesting and awesome in my opinion.

 

[Acronym2]

You know, I hate to over analyze....(but I do find the Trung Sisters story interesting and in some ways it relates to our Amazon legend.).......but I think the above posts are a very plausable explanation. Such brave and strong warrior women representing the living embodyment of all that is good and noble of the Vietnamese Civilization are horrified at the mere idea of being defiled by their barbarous/unclean enemies. Scholars would have written this story as a way to portray the virtuosity of the Vietnamese people versus the evil of Chinese domination.

Well, it doesn't seem to me that the ending to the Trung Sisters story is so strange anymore. It seems to fit quite well into the context.

 

[The_J]

I'll leave the nudist models to someone else to make.
However, if they make some, then I propose that they will have to make a whole set and also provide ethically diverse nudist models as well so we can have nudist versions of all the civs in the game...

no smiley can show, how i've laughed .

Say, this whole background on the Vietnamese Trung Sisters is very educational. Sometimes one can learn a great deal about other cultures and history while working on something Civ IV.

Like in this thread .

 

[Ajidica]

Nice job on the Byzantine units. I hope my description was useful.

 

[Bakuel]

I'm glad you like the units Ajidica!
Your description where actually very useful, most of the ancient set are the DBA online pictures with leather/padding armor instead of chain mail, which you advised against.

 

[Xenomorph]

I seem to be having problems with the Vietnamese pikemen. When I try to use them, I get this.

I'm pretty sure I have the code correct, and I used the Charlemagne HeavySpearman animation. Here's the code that I've used.

		<UnitArtInfo>
			<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_PIKEMAN_VIETNAM</Type>
			<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Pikeman.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Atlas.dds,7,1</Button>
			<fScale>0.44</fScale>
			<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
			<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
			<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
			<NIF>Art/Custom Civilizations/Vietnam/Flavor/Pikeman_Viet/VietnamPikeman.nif</NIF>
			<KFM>Art/Units/Charlemagne_HeavySpearman/HeavySpearman.kfm</KFM>
			<SHADERNIF>Art/Custom Civilizations/Vietnam/Flavor/Pikeman_Viet/VietnamPikeman.nif</SHADERNIF>
			<ShadowDef>
				<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/UnitShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
				<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
				<fShadowScale>1.0</fShadowScale>
			</ShadowDef>
			<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
			<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
			<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
			<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
			<AudioRunSounds>
				<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
				<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
			</AudioRunSounds>
		</UnitArtInfo>

Anyone else suffering similar problems?

As an aside, some of the instructions are rather vague. The Vietnam heavy cavalry says it uses the "Mounted Infantry" animation, even though I've never heard that term before. Would this happen to be the Charlemagne heavy horseman? Similar problems arise for the Vietnam horsemen (Charlemagne Mounted Infantry?).

 

[achilleszero]

I seem to be having problems with the Vietnamese pikemen. When I try to use them, I get this.

I'm pretty sure I have the code correct, and I used the Charlemagne HeavySpearman animation. Here's the code that I've used.

Anyone else suffering similar problems?

Yes I had the same problem, forgot all about it. Switch the kfm to Charlemagne LightSpearman instead, and that should fix it.

As an aside, some of the instructions are rather vague. The Vietnam heavy cavalry says it uses the "Mounted Infantry" animation, even though I've never heard that term before. Would this happen to be the Charlemagne heavy horseman? Similar problems arise for the Vietnam horsemen (Charlemagne Mounted Infantry?).

There is a Charlemagne Mounted Infantry. Just look through the BtS Charlemagne units and youll see it.

 

[Xenomorph]

Wow, I've never seen the Charlemagne mounted unit before. Thanks for the help on both points.

 

[achilleszero]

Wow, I've never seen the Charlemagne mounted unit before. Thanks for the help on both points.

Yeah nobody seems to use that one for the kf. Just for the hell of it I just made a unit that uses Papal Spearman animation as Ive never seen that one used either (plus its the only melee guy I could think of with an animated cape)

 

[Bakuel]

Opps!

The Vietnam pikeman actually use the vanilla pikeman animations.
But whatever you prefer I guess!
I'll fix the animation directions. Thanks for the heads up.

I will also be a bit more specific with the animation names in the future. After working with the files for a long while, you began to take things for granted, when I wrote mounted infantry I was think that everyone was familiar with the mounted infantry file form the Charlemagne scenario. It is my favorite none spear/lance mounted animation, I use it all the time.

I guess few people probably waste hours of their life fulling around with civ 4 modding, who would have thought?

Small Edit: If you had the problem achilleszero, why couldn't you find time to post it in the thread?
Now I am sad.

 

[avain]

Guys, guys, don't you dare to make Bakuel sad!

His production rate would drop!!!

Sorry, Bakuel

 

[Bakuel]

Ok I really wasn't sad, but I do enjoy reading bug/mistake reports! The sooner a mistake is fixed, the better.

True I should have never made the mistake to begin with, but it happens from time to time.

 

[achilleszero]

Small Edit: If you had the problem achilleszero, why couldn't you find time to post it in the thread?
Now I am sad.

Better late than never!

 

[Xenomorph]

Better never than on time.

 

[mamba]

I will also be a bit more specific with the animation names in the future. After working with the files for a long while, you began to take things for granted, when I wrote mounted infantry I was think that everyone was familiar with the mounted infantry file form the Charlemagne scenario. It is my favorite none spear/lance mounted animation, I use it all the time.

I guess few people probably waste hours of their life fulling around with civ 4 modding, who would have thought?

Hehe, when speaking of animation direction, this one always makes me wonder what you mean

"vanillia Greek Phalanx"

there is a ART_DEF_UNIT_GREEK_PHALANX wich uses Art/Units/Spearman/Spearman.kfm

and there is ART_DEF_UNIT_SPEARMAN which uses Art/Units/Unique/Greek/Phalanx/GreekPhalanx.kfm

So I always wonder which is which

For what it is worth, past experience shows it is the former, so you talk about the ART_DEF, not the KFM. Just thought others might also find this confusing