Byzantine Empire Nomenclature

[Lone Wolf]

Would it have killed to them use the standard "Asia Minor (the area of modern Turkey)"?

If the standard of historical literacy is that low, then no, I'm not convinced that their readers would have appreciated 'Asia Minor'!

That would require the author to know where Asia Minor is in the first place.

Oh, and I've found the Youtube video that the Daily Mail journalist used!


Link to video.

It's, apparently, a basic computer-generated "imperial rise and fall" simulation, not intended as a historical map.

I wonder where he got the dates from.

Archive the article immediately in case of removal. It deserves to be immortalized.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I don't see what the fuss is about. Rome did only hold on to Turkey briefly, and the Carthaginians did conquer it from them. I mean come on guys, it's like none of you have even heard of Zeng He's Great Sino-Punic Invasion Fleet before

 

[Lone Wolf]

No one here cares about Zheng He anymore. Personally, I am more interested in the Great Russo-Tatar empire with its capital in Moscow-Rome-Constantinople-Jerusalem and its religion, founded by Andronikos-Jesus-Mohammed.

 

[Dachs]

No one here cares about Zheng He anymore. Personally, I am more interested in the Great Russo-Tatar empire with its capital in Moscow-Rome-Constantinople-Jerusalem and its religion, founded by Andronikos-Jesus-Mohammed.

Ah! A clue! I am indebted to you, sir. Write to my club for full remuneration.

 

[Leoreth]

Haha, and the first comment:

Just looking at the maps of how the Romans expanded then the peasants revolted, reminds me of what is happening to the eu and it can't happen fast enough. Time for Britain to get out, before it implodes

You just have to love the Daily Mail.

 

[Arakhor]

This would probably be a good point to link to Dan & Dan's Daily Mail song.


Link to video.

 

[Yeekim]

Wow, what an article!

 

[Antilogic]

I prefer to call it the Roman Empire. "Byzantine" was coined after the empire's demise. It was the Eastern Roman Empire, but with no Western Roman Empire in contrast for most of its existence, it doesn't entirely follow to keep calling it that. They themselves referred to their state as Rhomania or the Basileia ton Rhomaion, so "Roman Empire" might be the most accurate term.

However, the term "Byzantine Empire" is less ambiguous and so more useful, as the term "Roman Empire" typically brings to mind the earlier state.

'Eastern Roman Empire' as long as there is still a Western Roman Empire with which to contrast it; Byzantine Empire otherwise, especially to avoid confusion with the Holy Roman Empire.

Somewhat along similar lines, I always use Eastern Roman Empire (or ERE) for the early period when it coexists with the Western Empire. I also fairly consistently refer to it by the same name later on, irrelevant of time period. So long as you keep the "E" or "H" in front, people shouldn't confuse it with the HRE if they are reading carefully.

No one here cares about Zheng He anymore. Personally, I am more interested in the Great Russo-Tatar empire with its capital in Moscow-Rome-Constantinople-Jerusalem and its religion, founded by Andronikos-Jesus-Mohammed.

That article is precious. Made my day.

 

[Lord Baal]

If the standard of historical literacy is that low, then no, I'm not convinced that their readers would have appreciated 'Asia Minor'!

They'd probably think the Romans conquered some underage Asians, who stayed in the Empire without a visa. These Asians then brought down the Empire by taking all their jobs.

 

[Tee Kay]

They'd probably think the Romans conquered some underage Asians, who stayed in the Empire without a visa. These Asians then brought down the Empire by taking all their jobs.

Still more accurate than the traditional "barbarian invasion" narrative.

 

[Lord Baal]

Why is every quote popping up with a picture of Shaka with a trollface?

 

[Theige]

Why is it that only the Byzantines attract this fetish for referring to a state by what they referred to themselves?

Well, we call the eastern half of the Roman Empire, after the founding of the tetrarchy, the "Eastern Roman Empire," and then at some point on or about when the Western half of the empire disintegrates we start calling it the "Byzantine Empire."

There is no single agreed upon date at which the "Eastern half of the Roman Empire" becomes the "Byzantine Empire," though there are many important dates in the "transition."

At least this is my amateurish understanding of it

 

[Nick Carpathia]

My understanding is you should never call it the Byzantine Empire because they never called themselves the Byzantine Empire. Nor the Eastern Romans.

They called themselves the Roman Empire.

 

[Leoreth]

Do you think we should refer to the Novgorod Republic as "Lord Novgorod the Great"?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Too many Byzantinophiles here

Where are the arrogant Classicists to tell us that everything post-Classical, including Byzantium, is degenerate, superstitious and tyrannical? Then we would at least have some fun!

 

[Traitorfish]

Do you think we should refer to the Novgorod Republic as "Lord Novgorod the Great"?

His Majesty Lord Novgorod the Great, thank you very much. Respect where it's due.

 

[Louis XXIV]

My understanding is you should never call it the Byzantine Empire because they never called themselves the Byzantine Empire. Nor the Eastern Romans.

They called themselves the Roman Empire.

Do you have any idea the headaches that would cause in North America describing Native American tribes? Or even the Aztecs in Central America? You would have to refer to periods of the Holy Roman Empire as the Roman Empire as well without any indication that you're referring to the German Kingdom.

 

[Traitorfish]

I quite like the idea of describing the Hundred Years War as a conflict between the Kingdom of France and the Kingdom of France.

 

[LightSpectra]

I quite like the idea of describing the Hundred Years War as a conflict between the Kingdom of France and the Kingdom of France.

Almost! It would be better to say that the Valois-Plantagenet War of 1337–1360 was between the Kingdom of France and the Kingdom of England (which, at that point, had political control over parts of the modern-day continental France and whose administrative language was French), whose king had a strong legal claim to being the legitimate King of France.

 

[Traitorfish]

We should really have fun with this and say that it was a war between the Lordship of Ireland and the Duchy of Orleans. That's sort of true, right?