C2C Balance Thread

[ls612]

Absolutely no way I would play like this guess ill be changing the techcost each time i update svn.
Oh and in regards to healers, don't they cost $1 a turn? Reminds me how AI keep a heap of missionaries just sitting around in there cities despite the fact they cost $1 a turn too.

Well, before this, games on Snail (7250 turns) were finishing, tech-wise, at about 2000 turns. With this change, I'm hoping to make the later eras take about as many turns as Prehistoric. Previously, once you reached Ancient and started expanding, your research would run away, and you would be getting techs every four or five turns on Snail.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I hope this doesn't throw me (on Epic) back into the old pattern. Where everything progresses in a timely fashion until Late Med Era when the "game years" race by but the techs are still in the same progression as previous eras. I "was" researching Musketmen in 1920s AD Not 1600AD where maybe I should've been getting them?

Only play time will tell then.

JosEPh

 

[T C]

We are still tweaking them. The previous tweak made it so no one was building them. I will look at their stats, one problem is that there are units out there designed specifically to kill healer units. We need an "Articles of War" mod which limits who you can attack if you sign up to the various treaties.

Which units are designed to kill healers? I must have missed them.

I suppose the point I'm making is that healers shouldn't need a special unit to kill them. They should be valuable but also vulnerable to fighting units.

ls612: I like the new tech times, progression is much slower for me in the classical era now. Although it has rather underlined how well I'm doing compared to the AI in this game. I will see how things develop as the eras progress.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Which units are designed to kill healers? I must have missed them.

I suppose the point I'm making is that healers shouldn't need a special unit to kill them. They should be valuable but also vulnerable to fighting units.

ls612: I like the new tech times, progression is much slower for me in the classical era now. Although it has rather underlined how well I'm doing compared to the AI in this game. I will see how things develop as the eras progress.

I have changed the combat strength of the healer units on the SVN.

The sniper line is designed to kill those units at the "back" of your army, Great Commanders and healers being two of this type of units.

 

[T C]

Thanks DH, I will let you know how it affects my game.

 

[T C]

Ok so I started a new game and the AI's production of healer units seems to have lessened, although it's still a little high for my liking. The AI also continues to do silly things, like escorting tribes with a healer (my rogue says hi!), but overall an improvment.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Wish my AI did that!

Do you still get a gatherer or worker for capturing/killing a settler?

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

@JosEPh II: How's your Epic going so far? Are the era-based tech changes good or bad for your progression?

 

[T C]

Wish my AI did that!

Do you still get a gatherer or worker for capturing/killing a settler?

JosEPh

Yes, although the journey would have been too arduous for the former tribe, so I had to disband it.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yes, although the journey would have been too arduous for the former tribe, so I had to disband it.

The first few techs on snail went far too fast 2-3 turns each but then it settled down to 6-10 turns each later. I was still in the prehistoric.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@JosEPh II: How's your Epic going so far? Are the era-based tech changes good or bad for your progression?

After settling in (getting past my initial complaint about not getting tribes early enough) I'm up to 749BC and the progression seems to be moving along nicely. Although the updates to the tech tree, since you made the changes, did have to be handled/absorbed.

Since I playtest on Noble, in this current game I am the tech/religion founding leader.

I'll post my current tech path shortly. I've been sick this weekend and playtime has been reduced because of it.

JosEPh

Edit: @0749BC the screenies show my current tech pathing for research. Starting with Sanitation with the goals of picking up Hvy Sword, Crossbow, and Mace, plus picking up some techs I skipped over earlier.

 

[ls612]

The first few techs on snail went far too fast 2-3 turns each but then it settled down to 6-10 turns each later. I was still in the prehistoric.

Agreed, the early techs, up to about Tool Making, need to be readjusted and their costs increased slightly. The changes by Hydro earlier this week were a bit of an overcorrection.

@JosEPh: That progression looks nice so far, but I may need to increase the Medieval and later eras a bit more. Thanks for helping in this testing.

 

[Sgtslick]

not many people research like i do, everyone beelines and has tech paths, i always just get the cheapest tech usually and try and scab off the ai as much as possible, i like lots of little benefits that smaller techs give rather than big advancements. Plus I find the AI usually beelines aswell so alot of the techs they totally skip over in classical era for instance and you can just get a couple of techs (with no brokering on) and be able to trade for alot of the entire era from ai, it might costs you $200 or $300 here and there to make the trade happen sometimes but usually its well worth it since $300 is pretty easy to come by. Also if you have worker trading on just chuck in a couple of workers and u'll be able to really cash in.

Techs like geometry and spice trade are good examples, (good techs too!!)

 

[Hydromancerx]

not many people research like i do, everyone beelines and has tech paths, i always just get the cheapest tech

I tend to do this too. I do not beeline much. I like to enjoy each era for as long as I can.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Is612,
I hit Medieval Era at 694 BC, turn 585 on Epic. That's when I got Theology.

@Sgtslick,
There's really not any difference between "tech pathing" and beelining. You have to select the Tech you want and then see what path the tech tree gives you to get there. I use this approach, as from the discussions with Koshling about the AI, it also does this. Since I playtest on Noble I emulate the AI as much as possible. Of course even the AI has to go back and pick up techs left behind because there are very very few that do not have good links to the "major" techs. And as you can see from the screenies if you follow the Path you will see that it backtracks several times to get to each "important" goal tech.

JosEPh

 

[T C]

In ny latest game I hit reached the ancient era at 2500BC (sedentary lifestyle).

The tech leader however, reached it at 3180BC.

I'm playing on snail by the way.

 

[ls612]

In ny latest game I hit reached the ancient era at 2500BC (sedentary lifestyle).

The tech leader however, reached it at 3180BC.

I'm playing on snail by the way.

That sounds reasonable, would you please be willing to post more updates of your tech progession? It really helps in balancing things and making C2C that much more enjoyable.

Just for whoever cares, my most recent Snail game, started after Hydro reduced most Prehistoric costs, I reached the Ancient Era at 3700 BC, a bit early, and am rapidly approaching the Classical Era, and it is now 2600 BC. I think part of this is that I didn't adjust the Ancient Era enough, but I think I need to poke Hydro about the Prehistoric Tech costs.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Is612,
Current game is at 524BC, am researching Invention. In the Medieval Era since researching theology @ 694BC. Seems abit early. Or the 5 years/turn is too little. 620 turns into this Epic game.

Civics and total civic costs:
Gov't: Repub., Low 46 Gold
Pwr: Patric., Med 67G
Soc: Proletr., Low 46G
Econ: Guilds, Med 67G
Mil: Banditry, No Upkp
Relig: St. Ch., M 67G
Welfare: Church, L 46G
Garbage: Landfill, L 46G
Immigr: OB, L 46G
Educ: Apprent., L 46G
Lang: Interp., M 67G
Agri: Ag Guilds, M 67G
Total per Civic screen: 611G
Total from Financed screen for Civic Upkeep: 622G; Inflation: 155G.

JosEPh

 

[BlueGenie]

I thought it wasn't really when one reached an Era but when most of the technologies from that Era were researched that counted?

Cheers

 

[ls612]

I thought it wasn't really when one reached an Era but when most of the technologies from that Era were researched that counted?

Cheers

At either rate, JosEPh is a bit ahead in his game. I still want to wait and see how long Medieval and Rennaisance take him, probably the only eras that need more adjustment are Ancient and Classical.