Doesn't having the Great Zimbabwe Great Wonder 'fix' that?
C2C - Civics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter EldrinFal
- Start date
Doesn't having the Great Zimbabwe Great Wonder 'fix' that?
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
What?
JosEPh
JosEPh
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I don't think I have ever had access to that wonder. Is it a National or Great wonder? Is it only available thru the African culture path? What Tech allows it?
JosEPh
JosEPh
Correct, and as long as new things are added, civics should change also, to keep the balance there. And thanks Hydro.
Okay, I'm working on three categories, one of which is a new one.
Power: How the power of leadership is "shared" with other people/branches.
Spoiler :
Rule: Basic structure of governing your citizens.
Spoiler :
Officials: How the "bureaucrats" of the government reach their positions.
Spoiler :
)
, you got tha' power.IMO the last category should have its name changed to Administration or something.
CIVPlayer8
Prince
I think training military with food should stay with Conscription, as it is one of the unque aspects of that civic.
Here, I created a draft of the new military civics, take a look.
Spoiler :
, -10% military production
upkeep per military unit, Free Looter + "4% of enemy gold reserve on victory", +11 XP, -10% Military Production
, +15% 
That sounds pretty cool, nice!
Thanks for reminding me of Bureaucracy, its under Officials now.Sorry, I was a little mistaken in my post. When you take away the young men, you aren't necessarily taking away the "Labor" of the country. After all, the tiles are still being worked in your cities. But what is taken away is the ability to "grow". Of course, countries in real life would still grow, but hey, this is a game.
If there was an option for 50% of 
to go to Military, that'd be better, but I'm not gonna go asking people who have much more on their plates.Thanks for the ideas! Corporate, Random, and Hunters are all pretty good.
The way you described "Virtual" made it seem like a form of government though, not governing. It might find its way in as a Government civic. Star System is a little like Election, and I don't think I understand "Chosen". How exactly do "the gods" choose people?Well, IMO, there will most likely never be a time where the majority of the population is informed of all the issues. Unless Instant Knowledge were to become a reality, and, somehow, people were to still hold individual opinions after being informed of "everything". To insure that everyone still holds an "opinion", you could have hundreds of different versions of the "Information Uploader", so everyone has a different view on the world. Or that wouldn't solve anything, who knows? I think "Instant Knowledge" is a very slippery slope, if that technology ever became available.
And yes, that's what he suggested the "Lottery" civic for. For it to be applied to Bureaucrats, or even a Senate/Parliament. No one in their right mind would award the presidency to a Lottery winner!
Heh...Thanks,
thats a much better name. I'm not the best at naming these
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I just do not like Any Mil unit production based on Food. So the proposed change to Militia now forces me too. I do not like that.
In the early game just getting enough food to get a city to start growing is a royal pain. This proposal will just compound the problem for me.
JosEPh
In the early game just getting enough food to get a city to start growing is a royal pain. This proposal will just compound the problem for me.
JosEPh
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Just as it was in real life! For most of (pre)history growth was very slow. It was not until the bronze age agricultural revolution that the number of people needed to get food started to be significantly less than all the people.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@CIVPlayer8
1. His "chosen" idea sounds more like Divine Right. Which I think is already a civic.
2. "Hunters" sounds too much like "Strongman".
3. Virtual sounds more like Democracy but just with higher technology. Not sure if its worth a new civic.
4. Random sounds just like my "Lottery" Idea. So yeah I think that should be made.
5. Will Matriarchy and Patriarchy ever come back? I really liked those as early prehistoric civics.
6. Corporate is already covered in a ton of other civics. I am not sure if we need it in that category too.
7. I think some of the existing civics need to have addational words to them. Sicne its hard to know what category they are in. Some examples ...
- "Subsistence" to "Subsistence Economy"
- "Socialized" to "Socialized Healthcare" or even "Socialized Medicine".
I was also thinking that since there are 2 "Vassalage" civics that the military one should be changed to "Feudal Levies" or just "Levy". I got the idea from Crusader Kings 2 It basically means the same thing but has a different name.
1. His "chosen" idea sounds more like Divine Right. Which I think is already a civic.
2. "Hunters" sounds too much like "Strongman".
3. Virtual sounds more like Democracy but just with higher technology. Not sure if its worth a new civic.
4. Random sounds just like my "Lottery" Idea. So yeah I think that should be made.
5. Will Matriarchy and Patriarchy ever come back? I really liked those as early prehistoric civics.
6. Corporate is already covered in a ton of other civics. I am not sure if we need it in that category too.
7. I think some of the existing civics need to have addational words to them. Sicne its hard to know what category they are in. Some examples ...
- "Subsistence" to "Subsistence Economy"
- "Socialized" to "Socialized Healthcare" or even "Socialized Medicine".
I was also thinking that since there are 2 "Vassalage" civics that the military one should be changed to "Feudal Levies" or just "Levy". I got the idea from Crusader Kings 2 It basically means the same thing but has a different name.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@CIVPlayer8
Here are some new icon/buttons for the Civics.
Included are ...
- Time Drafting [Military]
- Confederacy [Rule]
- Meritocracy [Rule]
- City States [Rule]
Enjoy!
Here are some new icon/buttons for the Civics.
Included are ...
- Time Drafting [Military]
- Confederacy [Rule]
- Meritocracy [Rule]
- City States [Rule]
Enjoy!
I also never use Conscription because of this. I just don´t want my military city/cities stop from growing.
I agree with this. It should at least exclude Scouts from this restriction, as otherwise this will really hurt early-game hunting and exploration.
Flinx
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2005
- Messages
- 455
Militia is currently the basic military civic or in other words the default military civic at your game start.
And if you all be honest, at this early stage you have a negative food production. So producing a military unit (or a gatherer) does not slow down any city growth just because there's none at the beginning of the game. (Except for some pretty rare starts with expansive trait and a lot of forests around)
The next militia civic is only a few techs away, you can change pretty early from militia to Banditry at Scavenching.
And if you all be honest, at this early stage you have a negative food production. So producing a military unit (or a gatherer) does not slow down any city growth just because there's none at the beginning of the game. (Except for some pretty rare starts with expansive trait and a lot of forests around)
The next militia civic is only a few techs away, you can change pretty early from militia to Banditry at Scavenching.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Yep. And for those who forgot at what tech what Military civic is triggered ...
Milita = None
Banditry = Scavenging
Conscription = Military Training
Mercenaries = Currency
Pacifism = Philosophy
Vassalage = Feudalism
Volunteer Army = Social Contract
M.A.D. = Advanced Rocketry
Digital Warfare = Digital Warfare
Unmanned Warfare = Military Robotics
Cloning = Gene Enhancement
Time Drafting = Time Travel
SilentConfusion
Emperor
I think training military with food should stay with Conscription, as it is one of the unque aspects of that civic.
Here, I created a draft of the new military civics, take a look.
Spoiler :
Militia: I like the change quite a bit. Food production is worthless real early game. The governor keeps wanting to work high food tiles to grow, but growth isn't happening that early, so I always have to manually change it to the best hammer tile. This would make food tiles worth improving earlier because right now I will use my gatherer to improve a normal hill tile over a corn tile every time because that early my food is so reduced by unhealthiness.
Conscription: The hindrance to growth is OK in my book here as the training speed and drafting are significant military bonuses, which I can leverage against my enemy to make gains that will make up for the growth I'm giving up.
Mercenaries: I assume that means +11XP for each created unit, so the cost per unit is higher but you get more promoted units, which simulates mercenaries, of course I could switch into this civic build a bunch of troops for the XP then switch out for the lowered troop maintenance.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
@ Flinx, Hydro, and SilentC,
We will see.
JosEPh
We will see.
JosEPh
SilentConfusion
Emperor
I'm curious what it is about Food --> Military Unit Production that you don't like because you seem to say you would not like that in any implementation?
I find that at the beginning I'm better off working a 1h tile than a 3f tile due to the huge unhealthiness penalty. To me this feels wrong. But by the time I've gotten scavenging (and thus Banditry), my city has started to grow (maybe in 300 turns, but it has started) and then I wouldn't want Militia because I need that long growth process to happen.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I place my starting city so that I have a 3f 1 gold or 1 f 2h 1 gold. River tiles and coast if possible.
This mod has made it a point to screw the hell out of food production at game start. Adding in needing Food to build the early Mil units will only make this this snail paced growth even worse. How long will it take for that Chaser or stone thrower to get built using Food instead of hammer? I suspect it will add several turns to each.
Oh I leave Militia as fast as possible, but now even moreso with these proposed changes.
And yes I do Not like mil unit production tied to food in any form. Mainly because of what the modders have done to food in the beginning of the game.
But it's just one opinion amongst many, and I'm usually in the minority.
JosEPh
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
@Joe: I'm not fully in support of a lot of use of the food for production on military stuff - I have a plan to include it on one trait as well but that's it. I DO see it as a double edged sword - bigtime!
However, I just want to clarify... it doesn't make units train ONLY with food. It combines all food AND hammers to generate units (aka all food income is converted to hammers while units are in production). So it only makes the production of units faster at the cost of rerouting that food from growth while units are being built. So, technically, its kinda a positive. It certainly gets the troops built faster and out of the way of other city development needs and can thus result in faster developing cities. It's a give and take kinda thing. I'm not a big fan of being on a civic that does it but if I need troops in a real hurry, it doesn't hurt there. And in the EARLY early game, before the unhealth gap is crossed, SC has a very valid point. What's the worth of food until then otherwise? But then again, to be stuck on that for some time afterwards would be rather crippling to food income (unless you consider that scouts and hunters and such will be plugged out faster thus being able to more quickly get out there and hunt to make up for the losses in their training.)
Anyhow, just some notes. I'm not sure how I feel cuz again, to me, its a double edged sword and I'm not sure I'd like being forced to ever maintain that effect.
However, I just want to clarify... it doesn't make units train ONLY with food. It combines all food AND hammers to generate units (aka all food income is converted to hammers while units are in production). So it only makes the production of units faster at the cost of rerouting that food from growth while units are being built. So, technically, its kinda a positive. It certainly gets the troops built faster and out of the way of other city development needs and can thus result in faster developing cities. It's a give and take kinda thing. I'm not a big fan of being on a civic that does it but if I need troops in a real hurry, it doesn't hurt there. And in the EARLY early game, before the unhealth gap is crossed, SC has a very valid point. What's the worth of food until then otherwise? But then again, to be stuck on that for some time afterwards would be rather crippling to food income (unless you consider that scouts and hunters and such will be plugged out faster thus being able to more quickly get out there and hunt to make up for the losses in their training.)
Anyhow, just some notes. I'm not sure how I feel cuz again, to me, its a double edged sword and I'm not sure I'd like being forced to ever maintain that effect.
Similar threads
