C2C- Prehistoric /Ancient / Classical / Medieval / Renaissance Eras

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydro
I'll start working on that right now.

Here is in game Ancient Tech Tree if you want a quick look..

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1. Thanks.

2. Also thanks and I updated my tech tree with the ancient era from the picture. I know we still have the classical era to do so I will leave it with spaces on my tech tree for now.

 

[Azurian]

1. Thanks.

2. Also thanks and I updated my tech tree with the ancient era from the picture. I know we still have the classical era to do so I will leave it with spaces on my tech tree for now.

So have for Classical this is the Approved list.
1. History
2. Mineralogy
3. Geophysics
3. Trigonometry
4. Geography
5. Metaphysics
6.Ceramics

The only other Technologies of note are philosophies.

For Medieval this is my preliminary list, that I am still working on a rough draft.

1. Gemcutting
2. Embroidery
3. Confections
4. Chimney
5. Watermark
6. Scholasticism or Scholastics
7. Algorithm ( Persian mathematician Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi)
8. Canon Medicine [Ibn Sina (Avicenna)]
9. Pharmacology
10. Geodesy
11. Demography or Social Science (Ibn Khaldun )
12.Artesian Well
13. Marching band
14.Lexicography or Dictionary or Manuscript or Essays

16. Fishing Reel (like hunting, you fish for giant and rare ocean gamefish; swordfish, shark, bass, pike , catfish, trout, stinkray, albacore, bluefish, steenbras, snapper, barracuda, mackerel , sturgeon, queenfish , trevally , roosterfish, Mahi-Mahi ,Tarpon , blue marlin )

17. Porcelain

18. ??? (Playing cards , Dominoes , Dice , Chess)

19. Fireworks

20. Polymath (put all mathmatical discoveries in here)

21, Antiquarian or Antiquary or Antiquarianism
22. Hypothesis (precursor of Scientific Method)

23.Incendiary (pre-gunpowder aka Grenade, Land Mine, Naval Mind, Greek fire)

24. Icon or Iconoclastic (images of holy beings).

25. Mechanical artillery (13th century)

26. Wheelbarrow (1170s) -

Useful in construction, mining, and farming. Wheelbarrows appeared in stories and pictures between 1170 and 1250 in North-western Europe. First depiction in a drawing in the 13th century.

27. Blast Furnace (1150-1350) -

Cast iron first appears in Middle Europe around 1150. The technique was considered to be an independent European development. One of the most important developments in the Middle Ages was the experimentation and developments in iron production. As noted by Bert Hall in his essay, "Iron is one of the most useful metals ever discovered, but it is also one of the more difficult metals to understand in history, especially in medieval history. Iron comes in several forms, and the complications involved in producing each of them fosters further confusion."

In Europe by 900, there were significant changes in the production of iron. The above ground reduction furnace had been developed; this furnace allowed for the easier creation of iron. This iron could then be forged by local smiths into "parts for plows, spades, pitchforks, and shoes for horses beginning to pull with the aid of the new horse collar" (Gies & Gies, 1994, pp. 80-81).

28. Spinning wheel (13th) [upgrade of Textile Loom]

Another key innovation in the 13th century was the introduction into Europe of the spinning wheel. "The Great or Jersey wheel, introduced around 1350, was the first improvement made in the process of cotton spinning. Thread could be spun faster on the wheel than with the traditional distaff" (Hills, 1973, p. 15). The final Medieval technical improvement to the spinning wheel was the addition of a foot treadle that powered the wheel.

By 1400, more changes had begun for the textile industry. These changes were aided by the dramatic social changes that occurred in the previous one hundred years. Because of the peace and general prosperity during the 13th century, Europe was overpopulated during the first part of the 14th century. And, with a rash of poor weather in the early 13th century, poorer harvest led to mass starvation in some parts of Europe. Added to this was an increase in warfare (for example, the Hundred Years' War), and death by warfare. To compound the problem further, the Black Death (the plague) struck Europe in 1347 through 1349. Historians estimate that between one-fourth to one-half of Europe's population died in the 14th century.

29. Mirrors

30. Quarantine (1377) -

Initially a 40-day-period, the Quarantine was introduced by the Republic of Ragusa to prevent the spreading of diseases like the Black Death. Venice began quarantines, then the practice spread around in Europe.

31. Craftmanship

The growth of towns meant the development of a new type of worker and here the craftsmen become very important. After 1000, there was a revival of commerce in Western Europe and the towns were well positioned as the location for these traders. Also, since the spread of the heavy plow (see section on Agricultural Tools above), agricultural productivity increased. This meant that there were excess agricultural workers who now could move to a town and work in either trade or manufacturing.

32. Animal Behavior

Al-Jahiz, the eighth century African biologist who first developed the theories of evolution and introduced the world to concepts like natural selection, the food chain and animal psychology a thousand years before Darwin was born.

33. Polyphonic music or Polyphony or Musicology (study of music)

34. Philosophical Inquiry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_philosophy

35. Anonymous
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_literature

36. Dietetics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_cuisine

37. Manners or Etiquette or Courtesy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette#History

 

[Hydromancerx]

For Medieval this is my preliminary list, that I am still working on a rough draft.

1. Approved. But isn't a bit late in the tech tree?
2. Seems a little too obscure. What buildings would even be here?
3. Approved.
4. No.
5. No.
6. Maybe.
7. Maybe.
8. Maybe,
9. We already have Drug Trade.
10. Maybe.
11. Maybe.
12. Approved.
13. No.
14. Maybe.
15. I did not see a 15
16. Maybe.
17. Seems to similar to Ceramics.
18. No.
19. Maybe.
20. No.
21. Maybe.
22. No.
23. No we already have Ancient Ballistics and Mines tech.
24. Maybe.
25. Maybe.
26. Maybe.
27. Maybe.
28. Maybe.
29. Maybe.
30. Maybe.
31. No.
32. No.
33. No.
34. Maybe.
35. No.
36. Maybe with a new name.
37. Maybe.

I tried to keep my answers simple. For some of the maybes they are maybe no while others are maybe yes. I could see some working while others just seem like they will just become empty techs.

 

[Yudishtira]

For Medieval this is my preliminary list, that I am still working on a rough draft.

2. Embroidery
6. Scholasticism or Scholastics

16. Fishing Reel (like hunting, you fish for giant and rare ocean gamefish; swordfish, shark, bass, pike , catfish, trout, stinkray, albacore, bluefish, steenbras, snapper, barracuda, mackerel , sturgeon, queenfish , trevally , roosterfish, Mahi-Mahi ,Tarpon , blue marlin )

22. Hypothesis (precursor of Scientific Method)

23.Incendiary (pre-gunpowder aka Grenade, Land Mine, Naval Mind, Greek fire)

24. Icon or Iconoclastic (images of holy beings).

26. Wheelbarrow (1170s) -

28. Spinning wheel (13th) [upgrade of Textile Loom]

30. Quarantine (1377) -

37. Manners or Etiquette or Courtesy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette#History

@Hydro: I quite like Embroidery. It's the seamstress' art-form, as opposed to her purely functional work. Would calling it 'Tapestry' raise it in your estimation? Certainly the Bayeux Tapestry could be on it as a WW.

@Azure/Hydro/anyone: I think Etiquette is a good idea for a pseudolegal tech for this era. Could be part of Chivalry, but it makes a certain kind of sense to keep Chivalry on the battlefield...

I like the sound of Scholastics and Quarantine, but I don't know enough to comment further. Also Hypothesis - if not the name - the evolution of Scientific Method needs some representation in Medieval (forget I spoke if it is already there in another form).

The one I really don't like is Wheelbarrow. How simple is that? I'm sure it was invented the day after the wheel, and quite possibly by accident it is such a no-brainer. The left-handed spork is more of a leap in technology.

And now to be picky (but not gratuitously so...):
Iconoclasty means the destruction not the creation of icons doesn't it
The Spinning Wheel is for making yarn, not for making cloth, so it doesn't replace the loom (nor should the loom ever be replaced should it? - it was certainly going strong in the 19th century)

 

[Azurian]

deleted.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydro: I quite like Embroidery. It's the seamstress' art-form, as opposed to her purely functional work. Would calling it 'Tapestry' raise it in your estimation? Certainly the Bayeux Tapestry could be on it as a WW.

That could work.

 

[Yudishtira]

You've probably had this debate before - perhaps many times - but don't you think the Renaissance era is too long? It's taken me 700 years! Two hundred years ago I got Enlightenment. Wasn't the Enlightenment around the 1780s? That's Industrial. All the techs since then could arguably be in Industrial too: Stock Brokering, (okay not Calculus,) Mine Warfare, the sciences, Sextant, and especially Rifling, Mil Trad and Replaceable Parts (not to mention Emancipation which I don't got yet).

I don't get it.

Even allowing for the Civ4 convention that the Renaissance continues to the Industrial Revolution, that's still only 350 years. Plus the above tech inclusions seem to have the Renaissance continuing until 1860-ish rather than circa 1770.

 

[Rwn]

OTOH Medieval seems far too short... Could some Renaissance tech also be transferred to Medieval? Otherwise, to reduce Renaissance era duration while keeping the same techs, a simple solution is to significantly decrease the cost of the techs in this era (who said that the further you advance, the more costly each tech must be?).

I'll extract the number of techs per era at some point to have a clearer picture on that.

 

[Rwn]

I'll extract the number of techs per era at some point to have a clearer picture on that.

Here it is:

Era | Num Techs | Total tech cost | Average tech cost
ERA_PREHISTORIC | 97 | 2151 | 22,2
ERA_ANCIENT | 87 | 8707 | 100,1
ERA_CLASSICAL | 57 | 17515 | 307,3
ERA_MEDIEVAL | 42 | 41300 | 983,3
ERA_RENAISSANCE | 56 | 146300 | 2612,5
ERA_INDUSTRIAL | 89 | 447870 | 5032,2
ERA_MODERN | 89 | 721030 | 8101,5
ERA_TRANSHUMAN | 164 | 2470150 | 15061,9
ERA_GALACTIC | 48 | 11302200 | 235462,5

There aren't so many techs in Renaissance after all, so tweaking tech costs could be a better solution.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I just think Medieval could use some more techs then. However it only has 7 columns so adding techs would mean that everything after it would need to be moved to the right.

But before that happens we would have to decide what new techs should it have.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'd bet equipments may enjoy some new techs around that time. Otherwise it could be an interesting research. There were developments taking place then but 'technology' was so shunned that it's not surprising the #s are how they've panned out there.

Of course the original point that it's taking too long to cross the Renaissance era is an interesting one as well. I'd say, keep playing and see if the industrial, modern and later eras have the same or even more of a problem. Could it be that the Ren era doesn't have enough tech output upgrade methods available to match its tech costs? I know once Scientific Method is reached there's a ton of techs and buildings that will bring a much improved tech rate and maybe there's not enough of this for the Renaissance?

 

[Rwn]

I just think Medieval could use some more techs then. However it only has 7 columns so adding techs would mean that everything after it would need to be moved to the right.

But before that happens we would have to decide what new techs should it have.

With the Table2XML tool it should be a matter of minutes to increase all iGridX for era after Medieval and regenerate the XML.


Btw here's the full column length per era list for future reference:

Era | First GridX | Last GridX | Length | Average number of techs per GridX
ERA_PREHISTORIC | 1 | 18 | 18 | 5,4
ERA_ANCIENT | 19 | 31 | 13 | 6,7
ERA_CLASSICAL | 32 | 42 | 11 | 5,2
ERA_MEDIEVAL | 44 | 50 | 7 | 6,0
ERA_RENAISSANCE | 51 | 61 | 11 | 5,1
ERA_INDUSTRIAL | 62 | 76 | 15 | 5,9
ERA_MODERN | 77 | 91 | 15 | 5,9
ERA_TRANSHUMAN | 92 | 114 | 23 | 7,1
ERA_GALACTIC | 116 | 135 | 20 | 2,4

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

With the Table2XML tool it should be a matter of minutes to increase all iGridX for era after Medieval and regenerating the XML.


Btw here's the full column length per era list for future reference:

Era | First GridX | Last GridX | Length | Average number of techs per GridX
ERA_PREHISTORIC | 1 | 18 | 18 | 5,4
ERA_ANCIENT | 19 | 31 | 13 | 6,7
ERA_CLASSICAL | 32 | 42 | 11 | 5,2
ERA_MEDIEVAL | 44 | 50 | 7 | 6,0
ERA_RENAISSANCE | 51 | 61 | 11 | 5,1
ERA_INDUSTRIAL | 62 | 76 | 15 | 5,9
ERA_MODERN | 77 | 91 | 15 | 5,9
ERA_TRANSHUMAN | 92 | 114 | 23 | 7,1
ERA_GALACTIC | 116 | 135 | 20 | 2,4

Except of course for the techs which are not in the main file so that they are fully modular, IE don't appear in the tree to be researched but give nothing when module is off. Those and their x y grid are documented at the top of the file.

 

[Rwn]

Except of course for the techs which are not in the main file so that they are fully modular, IE don't appear in the tree to be researched but give nothing when module is off. Those and their x y grid are documented at the top of the file.

I've included all modular tech files in the list. Unlike buildings and units, there aren't that many, in fact (one for Clockworkpunk, one for Cannanism, and a few in Hydro\Health\Doctor_CIV4TechInfos.xml that I believe are desactivated).
I have 744 techs (including a few odd ones such as TECH_RELIGION or the Health techs mentionned above) so I think I've them all.