C2C: Promotions

[Thunderbrd]

I believe it adjusts the crime growth rate on the tile the unit is on. I'm not sure this makes any difference at all outside of cities but I could be corrected on that. So generally its best for units with such promos to be moved to plant in an opponent city.

 

[Koshling]

I believe it adjusts the crime growth rate on the tile the unit is on. I'm not sure this makes any difference at all outside of cities but I could be corrected on that. So generally its best for units with such promos to be moved to plant in an opponent city.

Crime works the same inside or outside a city. It's just a property of the tile. A banditry unit will increase the crime in the tile its on for as long as its there. Since crime also flows from tile to tile, this will diffuse into the surrounding area too.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So I could build a Thief, Rogue, or Ambusher, send them into a neighboring AI's city or Fat X and start causing his Crime levels to slowly start rising as long as I kept the unit there?

And if so when will the AI know how to do this?

JosEPh

 

[Nimek]

What do you think about negative promotions like In Realism Invictus. I saw in civpedia that you add one crowded. What about others ex:

Fear
- casued by heroes units and world units to units in adjactent tiles
- effect: -2 first strikes


We spoke few days ago about importing aid promotions from Realism Invictus and most of You say that like this idea
So i have a question. If i will prepeare a ful list of this promotions (i will add more cause in C2C is more unit types)
with graphics and with concept explaination. Somebody will like to add it to C2C?

 

[ls612]

So I could build a Thief, Rogue, or Ambusher, send them into a neighboring AI's city or Fat X and start causing his Crime levels to slowly start rising as long as I kept the unit there?

And if so when will the AI know how to do this?

JosEPh

1. Yes, that is the entire point of Banditry, and in Crime units in general (go to your neighbors and cause problems.)

2. The AI understands that it is bad to leave those units near it's cities (and now will build them, as Koshling fixed the AI evaluations). If it knows more advanced strategies than that, I would be surprised.

 

[Koshling]

1. Yes, that is the entire point of Banditry, and in Crime units in general (go to your neighbors and cause problems.)

2. The AI understands that it is bad to leave those units near it's cities (and now will build them, as Koshling fixed the AI evaluations). If it knows more advanced strategies than that, I would be surprised.

It doesn't (yet), though the AIs on the crime units are ones that would naturally keep the units away from home territory and often in enemy territory (pillage AI for example), so it may not need explicit knowledge of crime-sourcing strategies. If they turn out to be fantastically powerful it shouldn't be hard to add. However, I think it unlikely to be an effective stratgey, since most of the crime units are limitted so you can't swamp your enemy with them, and placing the units anywhere but in or adjacent to the cities would have a very minimal effect - since the AI is not shy of building see-invis units that won't be feasible I think.

 

[Thunderbrd]

What do you think about negative promotions like In Realism Invictus. I saw in civpedia that you add one crowded. What about others ex:

Fear
- casued by heroes units and world units to units in adjactent tiles
- effect: -2 first strikes


We spoke few days ago about importing aid promotions from Realism Invictus and most of You say that like this idea
So i have a question. If i will prepeare a ful list of this promotions (i will add more cause in C2C is more unit types)
with graphics and with concept explaination. Somebody will like to add it to C2C?

I'd be happy to evaluate such a list for inclusion. I've been doing a lot of programming along these kinds of lines lately and can see a few ways to include this kind of thinking. So with a list like you are talking about, I can give it full consideration how to implement.

 

[Nimek]

I'd be happy to evaluate such a list for inclusion.

Ok I will do that during next week.

I saw that Silver Tongue promotion is empty i have an idea wht bonuses can give also i have ebtire concept that will give story tellers more options and will fill empty tech like oratory.

 

[ls612]

Ok I will do that during next week.

I saw that Silver Tongue promotion is empty i have an idea wht bonuses can give also i have ebtire concept that will give story tellers more options and will fill empty tech like oratory.

NO. DH is going to be using the Silver Tongue promo (and a few others that I haven't made yet) for his Extra Diplomacy module, once he fixes his computer. Oratory is also going to be involved with that stuff.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Ok I will do that during next week.

I saw that Silver Tongue promotion is empty i have an idea wht bonuses can give also i have ebtire concept that will give story tellers more options and will fill empty tech like oratory.

There is a problem, all the affects of those promotions are only in outcomes. I don't know how we are going to get that information into the pedia but we need to.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Could create a bool tag that's only there to invoke a description I suppose... Otherwise I'm not sure if there's a way to really get the Outcome system to be extraordinarily explanatory in unit/promo helps and pedia screens. That would be for AIAndy to sort out but I could help with the first solution if you've got a bit of patience.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Now that the Lunar and Martian terrains have been put in we need to think about promotions. Both Lunar and Martian should give terrain damage. The reasoning is 2 fold ...

1. There is little to no air.
2. Some terrain act like tundra or deserts.

We have the following terrain types ...

Lunar
- Lunar Barren
- Lunar Basalt
- Lunar Plains
- Lunar Desert
- Lunar Rocky

Martian
- Martian Barren
- Martian Desert
- Martian Dune
- Martian Ice
- Martian Permafrost
- Martian Plains
- Martian Rocky

In the Earth promotion we have ...

Arctic Combat
Tundra -> Permafrost -> Ice

Desert Combat
Desert -> Dunes -> Salt Flats

Rugged Combat
Barren -> Scrub -> Rocky

Thus I think we should have them work like this ...

Lunar Combat
Barren -> Plains -> Desert -> Basalt -> Rocky

Martian Combat
Barren -> Plains -> Rocky

Martian Desert Combat
Desert -> Dune

Martian Arctic Combat
Permafrost -> Ice

So here is the break down with stats ....

-----

Lunar Combat I
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Lunar Exploration
Req Promotions: Combat I
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Lunar Barren
• +20% Lunar Barren Attack
• +50% Lunar Barren Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Lunar Barren

-----

Lunar Combat II
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Lunar Exploration
Req Promotions: Lunar Combat I
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Lunar Plains
• +20% Lunar Plains Attack
• +50% Lunar Plains Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Lunar Plains

-----

Lunar Combat III
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Lunar Exploration
Req Promotions: Lunar Combat II
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Lunar Desert
• +20% Lunar Desert Attack
• +50% Lunar Desert Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Lunar Desert

-----

Lunar Combat IV
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Lunar Exploration
Req Promotions: Lunar Combat III
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Lunar Basalt
• +20% Lunar Basalt Attack
• +50% Lunar Basalt Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Lunar Basalt

-----

Lunar Combat V
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Lunar Exploration
Req Promotions: Lunar Combat IV
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Lunar Rocky
• +20% Lunar Rocky Attack
• +50% Lunar Rocky Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Lunar Rocky

-----

Martian Combat I
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Planetary Exploration
Req Promotions: Combat I
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Martian Barren
• +20% Martian Barren Attack
• +50% Martian Barren Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Martian Barren

-----

Martian Combat II
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Planetary Exploration
Req Promotions: Martian Combat I
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Martian Plains
• +20% Martian Plains Attack
• +50% Martian Plains Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Martian Plains

-----

Martian Combat III
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Planetary Exploration
Req Promotions: Martian Combat II
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Martian Rocky
• +20% Martian Rocky Attack
• +50% Martian Rocky Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Martian Rocky

-----

Martian Desert Combat I
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Planetary Exploration
Req Promotions: Martian Combat I
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Martian Desert
• +20% Martian Desert Attack
• +50% Martian Desert Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Martian Desert

-----

Martian Desert Combat II
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Planetary Exploration
Req Promotions: Martian Desert Combat I
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Martian Dunes
• +20% Martian Dunes Attack
• +50% Martian Dunes Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Martian Dunes

-----

Martian Polar Combat I
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Planetary Exploration
Req Promotions: Martian Combat I
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Martian Permafrost
• +20% Martian Permafrost Attack
• +50% Martian Permafrost Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Martian Permafrost

-----

Martian Polar Combat II
Graphic: ?
Req Tech: Planetary Exploration
Req Promotions: Martian Combat I
Unit Types: ?

• Double Movement in Martian Ice
• +20% Martian Icet Attack
• +50% Martian Ice Defense
• Immune to Terrain Damage from Martian Ice

-----

Unit icon/buttons are made I guess just just the blank blue one that the Sea Animal unit unit type uses for its icon/button.

I have no idea what unit classes these should be for. I assume most land units that will explore and colonize the Moon and Mars.

 

[ls612]

@Hydro:

Why in the world would a robotic probe take terrain damage from the moon or mars? That is all you are really going to be having, either that or people in spacesuits, who will also be immune to the hostile environment. Remember, the martian rovers (spirit and opportunity) that landed in 2003 were only expected to last for 3 months, and one of them is still running today, 8 years later. I think that this idea of terrain damage needs to be rethought for Multi-Maps.

 

[Koshling]

@Hydro:

Why in the world would a robotic probe take terrain damage from the moon or mars? That is all you are really going to be having, either that or people in spacesuits, who will also be immune to the hostile environment. Remember, the martian rovers (spirit and opportunity) that landed in 2003 were only expected to last for 3 months, and one of them is still running today, 8 years later. I think that this idea of terrain damage needs to be rethought for Multi-Maps.

Well, consider the nigh side of mercury vs the day side. A regular suit might protect you on the night side, but you'd need something very special on the day side. Doesn't necessarily apply to common terrains on planets like Mars, but there could be special cases even there, so the principal is sound.

 

[ls612]

Well, consider the nigh side of mercury vs the day side. A regular suit might protect you on the night side, but you'd need something very special on the day side. Doesn't necessarily apply to common terrains on planets like Mars, but there could be special cases even there, so the principal is sound.

Sure, for some terrains yes. But Hydro was suggesting that ALL martian terrain do damage, which seems a tad unreasonable at least for modern robotic probes.

 

[Hankc]

If the goal is to slow down exploration maybe you could make early Lunar and Martian units incapable of operating outside your culture? The culture would be analogous to a "supply area" were you can provide the food and oxygen needed for humans to operate, as well as shelters in case of sandstorms, extreme temperatures etc.

A line of defenceless robotic probe units with unlimited range could exist in order for exploration.

As you tech up, units gain greater independence from limitations like these, representing better technology and a more advanced local infrastructure.

 

[ls612]

If the goal is to slow down exploration maybe you could make early Lunar and Martian units incapable of operating outside your culture? The culture would be analogous to a "supply area" were you can provide the food and oxygen needed for humans to operate, as well as shelters in case of sandstorms, extreme temperatures etc.

A line of defenceless robotic probe units with unlimited range could exist in order for exploration.

As you tech up, units gain greater independence from limitations like these, representing better technology and a more advanced local infrastructure.

That was actually what I was thinking we would do, is limit somehow the exploration capabilites of land-based probes. The Supply chains/area idea was brought up a while ago, but I think that we dropped it as being too complicated.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That was actually what I was thinking we would do, is limit somehow the exploration capabilites of land-based probes. The Supply chains/area idea was brought up a while ago, but I think that we dropped it as being too complicated.

I don't think we dropped it because it was too complicated, it was only about 10 lines of code, it just happened on every move so could slow things down. I think we were going to go for a property instead and the property system had not been built at the time.

Iirc, I think we were going for

- can only move x plots from a friendly city/fort (complicated by vassal and open boarders)
- can move further is "live of land" eg recon and hunter get +x plot range
- stacks can move further if have food (really complicated as need to teach AI)​

There are other things we were also thinking about
- a lower level of contact with other nations that you can't see the cultural borders of

 

[Koshling]

I don't think we dropped it because it was too complicated, it was only about 10 lines of code, it just happened on every move so could slow things down. I think we were going to go for a property instead and the property system had not been built at the time.

Iirc, I think we were going for

- can only move x plots from a friendly city/fort (complicated by vassal and open boarders)
- can move further is "live of land" eg recon and hunter get +x plot range
- stacks can move further if have food (really complicated as need to teach AI)​

There are other things we were also thinking about
- a lower level of contact with other nations that you can't see the cultural borders of

I think this could be a great system, but it's ceratinly not only 10 lines of code, because there would be a lot of AI work to make the AI understand unit supply restrictions, and adopt appropriate strategies.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think this could be a great system, but it's ceratinly not only 10 lines of code, because there would be a lot of AI work to make the AI understand unit supply restrictions, and adopt appropriate strategies.

The 10 lines of code were for the first two and it was python onUnitMove, a good place to start.