Can Israel join the EU in the future?

[Archer 007]

Far more accurate to say that a tiny minority of Europeans "hate" Israel whereas a somewhat larger number disaprove of her policies in the occupied territories.

Name one territory that Israel occupes unjustly.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I think RMSharpe and some other people here have brought up an interesting point: The EU today is DOMINATED by Leftists, and what constitutes their Right Wing consists entirely of Nazi-Sympathizers. European nations need some Non-Evil Right-Wingers.

 

[eyrei]

I think RMSharpe and some other people here have brought up an interesting point: The EU today is DOMINATED by Leftists, and what constitutes their Right Wing consists entirely of Nazi-Sympathizers. European nations need some Non-Evil Right-Wingers.

Maybe all the people who can possibly become sane have moved to the left.

 

[amadeus]

Name one territory that Israel occupes unjustly.

Tel Aviv, according to some critics.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I don't think that Sanity is the dominion of the Far-Left anymore than it is of the Far-Right. Morover, when both extremes on the Political Spectrem are reached, you have either 1. Anarchy, or 2. Tyranny. And either can occur on both extremes.

When you eliminate the left, you eliminate compassion and the desire to save the world, but when you eliminate the right, you eliminate the moral absolutes that give your cause its meaning. People have a Left and Right brain for a reason...

 

[Hotpoint]

Name one territory that Israel occupes unjustly.

"unjustly"? Tell you what I'll answer with the ones they occupy illegally. These being those occupied in 1967.

Strangely enough though if Israel had only kept the Golan Heights and West Bank as a buffer zone they would have still had some justification under international law because it might have been argued as necessary for self-defence, however by allowing Israeli settlement beyond their legal borders Israel lost her ability to make that argument.

 

[Hotpoint]

You just answered the question why.

Europe loved Israel until the USA started it's support. Once that happened, I don't have to tell you what followed. Whether there are anti-Jewish feelings in Europe, I don't know, but I do know that Europeans in many cases are bitter adversaries of the United States and therefore oppose just about anything that we might possibly have in common.

You are making a false correlation here. In any case for one thing major US support for Israel started long before public opinion in Europe shifted from a broadly pro-Israeli position and anyway there are vastly more Europeans whose disapproval of Israeli policies is linked to their actions in the occupied territories and Lebanon rather than any kind of knee-jerk anti-americanism.

 

[Masquerouge]

I think RMSharpe and some other people here have brought up an interesting point: The EU today is DOMINATED by Leftists, and what constitutes their Right Wing consists entirely of Nazi-Sympathizers. European nations need some Non-Evil Right-Wingers.

That's completely inaccurate. Or maybe by "leftists", you mean "not Republican" ?
The political spectrum in Europe is a lot wider than the American one. Quite a lot of European countries, including the bigger ones, have a right-wing government that is NOT nazi : France, for instance. The president of the European Commission is not particularly left-wing. The main force in the European parliament is right-wing.

But what's really important when you judge European politics is to take off your American glasses.

 

[BasketCase]

Einstein's Theory of Relativity, political corollary: all political viewpoints depend on the viewer's reference frame. To wit: when a liberal is viewing a centrist person or policy, that person or policy will appear to be further to the right than it actually is. Conversely, to a conservative, centrist people and policies appear to be liberal.

Translation: knock it off, people, everybody has a biased viewpoint.

 

[Hotpoint]

I think RMSharpe and some other people here have brought up an interesting point: The EU today is DOMINATED by Leftists, and what constitutes their Right Wing consists entirely of Nazi-Sympathizers. European nations need some Non-Evil Right-Wingers.

I'm sure it is very comforting to believe that European criticism of Israel is due to some kind of left-wing domination of the continent but how then would you explain in this context why the UK Conservative Government of 1979-1997 was so frequently critical of Israeli policies.

Do you consider Margaret Thatcher left wing too?

 

[Masquerouge]

Translation: knock it off, people, everybody has a biased viewpoint.

Second corollary : when judging other countries' politicians, use the word "Nazi" with care.
That was actually the point I was trying to make, because frankly, saying the European Right wing "consists entirely of Nazi Sympathizers" seems to me a bit off the cliff.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I think RMSharpe and some other people here have brought up an interesting point: The EU today is DOMINATED by Leftists, and what constitutes their Right Wing consists entirely of Nazi-Sympathizers. European nations need some Non-Evil Right-Wingers.

IIRC, a year ago, Blair and Schröder were about the only Labor/Social Democrats left. Ok, now there are several more (Spain, Portugal most recently)
Sorry, I think you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I'd guess all you know is your FOX propaganda about leftish Chirac and Schröder, and your buddy Blair. I'd bet you couldn't name 3 more European heads of states.
Chirac is pretty right wing. Schüssel, he's in a coalition with the FPÖ, the former Haider-party. Rasmussen is almost extremely right wing in regards to anti-immigration. Berlusconi?
That's not only a question of relative standpoints. Regardless of your personnal position, those politician cannot be called 'leftish'.
That is, unless 'leftish' only means 'not ultra-pro-US, pro-welfare state, against starting the day with singing the anthem everywhere'.
Then, of course, any politician in the world who is neither a US Republican nor a US Democrat deserves that label.

 

[REDY]

Oh I think we may accept Israel, but main problems are their geographical position, fighting againist Palestines and relationships between Israel and Arab nations. I think that American goverment will not allow entership and I think many Israeli people dont want be EU member. Maybe after 10-20 years it may be different, but now I must say NO.

 

[civ2]

I rushed to answer yes but now I'm not quite sure...
I don't know Israel's economics.
But I LIVE in a country which became EU very recently and I see only BAD things for us..!
You must be richer than EU to have profit from joining there.
Otherwise you become another "third country" or simply a waste-place for the EU.

 

[Masquerouge]

I rushed to answer yes but now I'm not quite sure...
I don't know Israel's economics.
But I LIVE in a country which became EU very recently and I see only BAD things for us..!
You must be richer than EU to have profit from joining there.
Otherwise you become another "third country" or simply a waste-place for the EU.

Mmmh I don't know what's your country, and when you joined, but Spain, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, in short all of yesterday's poor countries clearly benefited massively from the EU. Maybe you have to wait a bit ?

 

[civ2]

You forget about country politics and POLITICs...
I'm 100% sure my country is so corrupted that we won't see any good at least some 20-30 years.
And that's too long for me!
BTW best ex:
Things like medicaments and food become imported from the EU but those are MUCH more expensive and RARELY better than ours.
We may become another China or Korea - cheap workers and trash-cans for other countries.
I speak about people not numbers or statistics.
Best ex: (aka joke)
Two people had their lunch - one ate nothing and the other ate 2 chickens.
Statistically each ate a chicken - but one is starving and another one has stomach-ache!!!

 

[Verbose]

I'm convinced (history is stubborn thing, pogroms never came all of a sudden) that "not particularly liking Jews" eventually will spill into willing to take some action against Jews. And that made Jews extremly alert to any sign of hostility towards them, especially when there is no logical reason but "dislike of Jews" for such hostility. This hostility, be it verbal or fisical violence, is called anti-semitism. Wich, of course, is only one kind of racism, as boogaaboo pointed out. There are people, that don't like Gypsies, just because they don't like Gypsies, we could call them Anti-Gypsites.

That said, we, Israelites (and we are mostly Jews), see events happening in Europe slightly magnified. And we can't be blamed, there are reasons. So if for non-Jews some anti-semitic passages can seem minor and easy to dismiss, it's not an issue with Jews.

The problem is compounded by the fact that some people in Israeli and US politics use the "anti-semite" label as a kind of bogeyman.

It's getting to a point where anyone critical of Israeli politics in the West Bank or sympathetic to the Palestinians runs the risk of being branded an "anti-semite" regardless of their reasons for the criticism.

It's handy because if you can make the label stick it's a 100% effective excuse for shutting down any kind of discussion.
You face criticism — Bring out the magic bullet of "anti-semitism" — Bingo! End of discussion, never mind what the actual arguments were.

It's a politcally dangerous game, since it can eventually backfire by sapping "anti-semtism" of some of the potency it has had post WWII.
It has been a kiss of death in mainstream European politics. If that changes through an unholy alliance between the real anti-semites in Europe and right wing Israeli and US politicians we will all be loosers. Especially since anti-semtism is still lurking around in Europe.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Look at a map. Look at the location of Israel in comparison to Europe. Do the math. This goes for Turkey as well.

 

[Xen]

as a point on geography, and culture, everythign wes tof Iran has histories and culture so intertwined that to not call them the same geographical region is rather absurd (yes, this means everythign you take for granted geography wise, in factr, absurd, the differences in culture, all told, are rather minimal, as they are only being, and have been manipulated for assorted purposes in the past, and present)

 

[The Last Conformist]

Look at a map. Look at the location of Israel in comparison to Europe. Do the math. This goes for Turkey as well.

Cyprus, Cyprus, Cyprus.