Originally posted by Narz
I remember in college reading an essay in Sociology about some tribe in South America (I think) who actually had some faith and respect in their kids, they would let them do pretty much what they wanted, within reason. They were not watched over like hawks with fathers yelling and mothers shrieking and scolding every time Junior crawls near a sharp object.
The result? By age 5 the children were able to handle knives, tools and other "dangerous items". They matured far faster than the average sheltered child in contemporary "Western" society.
I wonder how many were seriously injured or killed in this learning process.
Sure, I tend to think the idea of "learning through mistakes" is the most effective way, and generally think experience is the best teacher. However, when you are talking about kids, you have to balance this with concern for their safety, i.e. you can't let them "learn from mistakes" if the mistake can cause serious harm to himself or others. This is a classic dilemma of parenting--how to protect, without being overprotective. Parenting not being an exact science, some will find this balance easier than others.
My opinion : smacking, pushing around and even verbally yelling at your kid to trigger the guilt response is all bad parenting.
Generally you will have to use ONE of these SOMETIME in your parenting, though. No YELLING? Just you wait until you're a parent, and you MUST get a crucial message across quickly and make it sink in, to a child who would otherwise not care.
I think a lot of people mistakenly think that spanking is some daily ritual or commonplace occurence in households where parents spank. Some families, maybe. But most, no. I was spanked, but I could probably count the number of times on my two hands (and maybe a couple of toes). As if I could really remember each case specifically.... Anyway, I even think a lot of parents go into childraising thinking "they will never do it" (my sister said to me she never would), yet at some point, they do because they've tried everything else they can think of (my sister has ended up having to spank, occasionally, and doesn't like having to do it). Maybe the parent isn't as skillful at verbal communication, maybe they are not as good at projecting authority with their voice, or maybe THE CHILD just doesn't care what their parents say and is less receptive to authority compared to other kids. But whatever the reason why the other methods don't always work, the fact is, the message HAS TO be communicated, or there are serious consequences. So what do you do? It ain't always so easy, is it?
So what, it happened to you, why pass it along to your kid, if you still have this childish attitude (similar to hazers in boarding schools) then perhaps you shouldn't have kids.
Because I never thought of spanking as cruelty. I mean, I didn't LIKE being spanked, but I also didn't like having to help clean the house or going to bed at 9. But I KNEW the difference between my parents spanking me, and a bully punching my face, even at that young age. I never even though of them being in the same ballpark, and they weren't.
So I wouldn't pass it along because "my parents did a BAD thing to me, so I'll do a BAD thing to my kids." Instead, I may find I have to use some of the same parenting techniques my parents did, because they worked. I.e. using the best example of parenting I can think of, my own parents! That's just natural, and as they were not BAD parents, but actually quite good in a lot of ways (I think I turned out well, as a decent person), it's also not a bad idea to follow a good example. Some things my parents DID do badly, I recognize and will try not to repeat those mistakes. But spanking, the way they did it, was not one of those things, the way I see it.
When I was young, my impressionable mother had a friend who wrote a book about "holdings". What is a holding? Basically its a theraputic technique where you wrestle your kid to the ground and hold them immobile for about 20-30 minutes every day to "let them know their boundries" and "release their anger" or some other such bulls**t. So my mother did this for a few months when I was 5, I hated it! 
This just sounds bizarre. No, my parents didn't do that. My Dad would hold me down and tickle me sometimes, in play, that's about the only time he "held me down" and it was for an entirely different purpose.
This and all other physical means to control children is wrong and instills in them a sense of powerlessness and makes them far more likely to commit violence against others in the future.
No, it's not that cut and dry. It depends on the spirit in which it is done (and kids seem to be able to detect these intangible distinctions, before they can even reason). My parents did it out of love, never out of malice, and NEVER to injure me or "break my spirit" (just hold a line on behavior). And they didn't. And I was never a bully, in fact I don't think I have EVER initiated a physical fight. That was never my nature. So obviously my parents DID IT RIGHT, something that negative overgeneralizations tend to ignore. I would hope that if I ever have to spank my child, I will also DO IT RIGHT. That is what really makes all the difference as far as this issue goes.
In the first few pages of posts I was amazed to read how many of you were saying basically "Kids need to be hit for discipline" or "I needed to be hit to learn". This is very sad. No offense but you guys sound like you have battered wife syndrome, "No officer, its ok, Bob was right to hit me, I really don't listen to him...".
I have said here, with no one giving me effective refutation, that there is a fundamental difference between spanking and "battering" or abuse. It is a difference involving intangibles (the "spirit" of the act), but intangibles are just as real as tangibles, and are recognizeable by most people (and there are some who probably willfully ignore such intangibles and think they are a better debater because of it(no I'm not referring to you necessarily)--I used to do that myself
).
We need to treat our children as if they are not inherently stupid, out of control beings.
We shouldn't always make the ASSUMPTION that they are stupid or out of control, but what do you do when they do STUPID things, or ARE out of control? Reality doesn't always follow our expectations!
I know inside I am a good person, not because my parents made me feel guilty but because I simply believe I am good. Guilt and fear actually make you a worse and more desperate person.
If by guilt you mean remorse, you SHOULD feel remorse when you do a bad thing. If there are bad consequences to your bad action, fear isn't so bad either, if that fear is the only thing that will prevent you from doing the bad action (for example, I quit smoking mainly because I FEARED the consequences of heart disease or cancer).
Yes, you can be a good person, but NO ONE is good enough that they should never have to feel remorse, because everybody f*cks up sometimes.
Also, I've heard the excuse, well my kid was about to touch fire I had to hit him. Thats a bunch of garbage. Just gently move him/her away from the fire. If he insists on touching it he will learn for himself, fire=ouch. Sure he may burn his little finger but at least he'll know in himself that fire is bad instead of thinking "damn, I sometimes get smacked for trying new things, better not try new things, I'll just let mommy and daddy and the flickering box tell me whats good and bad".
Depends. Are we talking about a blister on the finger, or third degree burns that scar?
Shoot I could go on and on about this forever but no point in getting myself riled up. Seriously though, I'm surpised at you guys...
- Narz 
I'm surprised at some people here too. It happens.
I wonder what the percentage of youth criminals and pregnant females under 16 were beaten by their parents...
if they are to feel pain from (almost) touching the fire or a knife, it's better they feel the real pain and get comforted by loving parents when they get hurt, instead of getting "hurt" by the parents and not understand why. I don't think I'd let my child do it though if I could stop it. 
