Canada puts visa restrictions on Czech and Mexican Visitors, "Visa War" Feared

[Winner]

Ya, well, I didn't want your crappy Czech beer anyway.

So don't drink it, your loss

The Conservative Party are the masters of facepalm. Jason Kenney can run with the best of them.

The last time visa regime was imposed, it was done by a liberal government. I am not nearly convinced that this is a fault of any particular politican in Canada.

Hockey: At the very top there is always a probability factor as to who wins. The difference is that Canada could field three or four full teams with the potential to win it all. The Czechs need to get lucky with some freakish goalie and hope Jagr doesn't crash his Ferrari on the way to practice.

We can't hope to win anything in the next 15 years, if ever. The advantages we had in the 1990s are gone, our team relies on aging experienced players instead of a new generation and where there was talent in our national league is now nothing . Last IIHC WC only proved it - once our team meets a stronger team, the result is defeat.

As for the Olympics - all countries are going to send their best, but we've already tried it and it wasn't enough even at the WC. I am gonna celebreate if we make it to the quarterfinals.

 

[El_Machinae]

Moderator Action: Winner & Valka D'Ur: neither of you are responsible for this political mess, and so let's please back off from making this a personal fight. Warned.

 

[Cutlass]

I would prefer if movement of poeple was less restricted. I don't think that being poor is a good reason to be denied residency or even access to another country.

augurey said it pretty well. Developed nations would be better off if the majority of the immigrants they allow were skilled, rather than unskilled, people. I'm not saying exclude all of the unskilled, but with narrow exceptions we have all the unskilled people we need already.

 

[Squonk]

Do Slovakians need visas to go to Canada? They have many many more Roma people...

 

[emzie]

Do Slovakians need visas to go to Canada? They have many many more Roma people...

Nope, was lifted in 2008.

 

[luiz]

Being poor? No. Having no valuable skills? Yes. Having no valuable skills usually begets poor.

A valuable skill is highly subjective. Everybody can be useful if they want to.

 

[holy king]

i like you when you say things universally regarded as right.

 

[Trajan12]

Being poor? No. Having no valuable skills? Yes. Having no valuable skills usually begets poor.

I'd say Canada's immigration policy is substantially fairer than most other Western nations. Skilled Worker is betting than letting in only the very rich or very poor.

 

[Winner]

I'd say Canada's immigration policy is substantially fairer than most other Western nations. Skilled Worker is betting than letting in only the very rich or very poor.

We're not talking about economic migration, but about asylum seekers. These are two different things.

Most countries allow people from other countries to come in, live there, work and eventually be granted citizenship.

IN ADDITION, they are bound by international treaties to offer asylum to people who flee their native country not to escape poverty, but to escape persecution (political, racial etc.).

The problem here is that the Roma pretend to be victims of political/racial oppression here in the Czech Rep. only to seek economic benefits in Canada. In other words, they're evading the legal way for an immigrant to enter the country and they abuse Canada's generous welfare associated with the status of refugee.

Canadians, instead of reforming their asylum system to make it less attractive to these false refugees, simply introduced visas for all Czechs, without a warning, without a having a visa office at their embassy in Prague, without consultations with the EU and the Czech gov. This is simply outrageous.

 

[Winner]

Do Slovakians need visas to go to Canada? They have many many more Roma people...

Nope, was lifted in 2008.

You know what's funny? The Roma situation in Slovakia is one magnitude worse than here in the Czech Rep. In Eastern Slovakia, there are whole "villages" (if they deserve the name) without electricity, running water, even roads and sewerage full of Roma who can't even read. They look like some backwater villages in India, a strange sight in Central Europe.

Spoiler :

In cities, it's not much better - there are whole quarters full of Roma living in devastated communist-era apartment blocks, again without electricity (they refuse to pay rent).

As far as I know, the Slovak government ignores the problem, despite the fact that there are about twice or thrice as many Roma there as here in the Czech rep.

So, why don't they travel around the world in such numbers claiming refugee status?

The somewhat ironic answer is - they're too poor. You see, Czech Roma are on average much better off than those in some neigbouring countries. The government gives them generous welfare, there are more middle class Roma who can support their extended families, there are many Roma NGOs funded from public budget etc.

As a result, Czech Roma can, on average, better afford a plane ticket to Canada. Here is the irony: the number of false Roma refugees is in fact a sign of their improving economic situation.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Canadians, instead of reforming their asylum system to make it less attractive to these false refugees, simply introduces visas for all Czechs, without a warning, without a having a visa office at their embassy in Prague, without consultations with the EU and the Czech gov. This is simply outrageous.

If you make a slight edit to the above thusly:

The Canadian government, instead of reforming their asylum system to make it less attractive to these false refugees, simply introduces visas for all Czechs, without a warning, without a having a visa office at their embassy in Prague, without consultations with the EU and the Czech gov. This is simply outrageous.

I would not disagree with you at all.

 

[Orange Seeds]

Immigration reforms will not and cannot be attempted while parliament is in summer recess. That would be a political disaster. I am not aware of that ever being done in our history which makes it virtually constitutional.

Yet, we have thousands of fraudulent asylum claims coming from a small, westernized EU country which costs us millions of dollars annually.

I'm sorry, but this was one of those decisions that was not good, but it was reasonable and just might be the best option for the Canadian people.

 

[Kerozine]

I'd say Canada's immigration policy is substantially fairer than most other Western nations. Skilled Worker is betting than letting in only the very rich or very poor.

I'm pretty sure most countries' immigration policies are merit-based.

Immigration reforms will not and cannot be attempted while parliament is in summer recess. That would be a political disaster. I am not aware of that ever being done in our history which makes it virtually constitutional.

Yet, we have thousands of fraudulent asylum claims coming from a small, westernized EU country which costs us millions of dollars annually.

I'm sorry, but this was one of those decisions that was not good, but it was reasonable and just might be the best option for the Canadian people.

Why not just reject all claims from the two countries?

 

[Orange Seeds]

Why not just flat-out reject all claims from the two countries?

Because that is illegal and contravenes the point of the system. The visa requirement is very clumsy, i agree, but throwing out the basis of our immigration system to accommodate a few hundred inconvenienced Czech travelers is silly.

 

[Kerozine]

Because that is illegal and contravenes the point of the system. The visa requirement is very clumsy, i agree, but throwing out the basis of our immigration system to accommodate a few hundred inconvenienced Czech travelers is silly.

Can't really put a figure to those inconvenienced, but even one is too many for countries that aren't traditional hot spots for strife. There is nothing on-going that would justify there being any legitimate claimants; they would be better addressed through standard immigration procedures.

I am not aware of the specifics of the refugee system; how would the visa-requirement deter would-be asylum seekers from coming to Canada?

The short notice and potential for continued abuse are my only concerns, albeit minimal.

 

[Winner]

Because that is illegal and contravenes the point of the system. The visa requirement is very clumsy, i agree, but throwing out the basis of our immigration system to accommodate a few hundred inconvenienced Czech travelers is silly.

So is abandoning the common visa policy of the EU because some North American country can't reform it's refugee processing system. Remember that when you'll apply for visa to the EU.

Anyway, as I said previously - in Europe before the EU expansion, there was a system when countries recognized each other as safe, and therefore all applications from safe countries were immediately rejected. Canada could have a similar system with allied democratic countries.

 

[El_Machinae]

Winner, for the record, I completely agree that it was improper for the Cdn government to do this. Canada has become a bit more evil under the Conservative government, and it's embarrassing (in many ways). They got elected in during an economic bubble, when the idea that "the gov't should GTFO" is strong. Finally, this specific move was done by a cabinet minister while he's unaccountable to the people or even the other parties.

It was a dirty and short-sighted move. I believe that international political disgust is well warranted.

 

[luiz]

augurey said it pretty well. Developed nations would be better off if the majority of the immigrants they allow were skilled, rather than unskilled, people. I'm not saying exclude all of the unskilled, but with narrow exceptions we have all the unskilled people we need already.

So all your "help the poor" mumbo jumbo applies only to people born within certain arbitrary lines?

 

[El_Machinae]

People will always fail the 'help the poor' hypocrisy test, eventually. Countries will sometimes be short-sighted, and in short-sighted terms, allowing only qualified immigrants is good game theory. A country is going to allow the immigration that its citizens think it can handle, and will suffer unrest if immigration is a problem.

Canada's stupidity, of course, is that we're utterly failing to provide sufficient international foresight so that people won't want to immigrate due to poverty, since their lives aren't too bad.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

So all your "help the poor" mumbo jumbo applies only to people born within certain arbitrary lines?

What difference does it make where people were born? Are you saying that somebody born in a slum is incapable of learning a skill just as well, or better, than somebody not born in a slum? I'm assuming for the purpose of this question that they have equal access to learning the skill...

(yes, I know that's usually not the case, sadly...)

There's a considerable difference between stupid and unskilled.