Capto Iugulum Background Thread

[Luckymoose]

Lucky, that's all you're capable of. Trolling. Enough said. Learn history, read books, it will help you with your low self-esteem. So far I've given you tons of historical accounts that back me up, and you haven't produced anything except for your immature babbling.

As for the rest, I really haven't heard a single historical account that backs up my opponents' side

The battle is over, son, you've been routed. I have a first world education in history. It is what I study in university. You are wrong. You will never be right. I have books in front of me right now that explain why you are wrong from the top historians in the world, printed by the most prestigious university presses. TheLastJacobite has an education in history, he backs me up. There are things that are right and wrong in the world, simple as. Your views on the influences on Europe and Peter the Great are distorted by what I assume to be a poorly organized Russian education.

I am not a troll. I am right. This is what I do. I study. I lecture. I am educated. Please, do yourself a favor and stop.

 

[Ahigin]

@Ahigin- A select sampling includes the following:

Constanin de Grunwald's Peter the Great (an English translation in 1956 of an earlier edition originally published in French)
Europe in the Age of Louis XIV (1969)
David Ogg's Europe of the Ancien Regime 1715-1783 (1967)
M.J. Scheltema's Anecdotes historiques sur Pierre Le Grand et sur ses voyages en Hollande et a Zaandum (1842)
M.M Shcherbatov's Journal de Pierre Le Grand depuis l'annee 1698 jusqu a la conclusion de la paix de Neustadt (1773)
S.M. Solovev's Istoriya Rossii s drevneishikh vremem (1960-1966), E.V. Tarle's Russkii flot i vneshnyaya politika Petra I (1949)
Among many many others. He also extensively uses letters and accounts from the various diplomats in Russia at the time, including the spread of Western customs and ideals into Russia.

Wait a second. So, only one of them was written by a Russian in Russian language. I see the source of this bias.

 

[Crezth]

I'm wondering what accounts does Robert K. Massie use to support his opinion of Peter the Great's fascination with the French culture, except for the fact that France was big and strong? I really want to know how he ended up saying what he is saying, not just for the sake of the argument.

Is this a serious question? France was not just big and strong, it was the biggest and strongest. It was, arguably, single-handedly the most influential entity in Europe. Your objections ring somewhat hollow in light of the fact that the world we're talking about has no France whatsoever. To suggest this would have no impact on Russia's development, much less Europe at large, seems to me a silly point to make.

 

[Luckymoose]

W. Doyle's Old Regime France is a good introduction to some of these topics too, Ahigin.

 

[TheLastJacobite]

Wait a second. So, only one of them was written by a Russian in Russian language. I see the source of this bias.

As I stated before, that was a sampling of the sources only relating to French influence on Russia in the time of Peter the Great. Of Massie's total of 108 sources, 32 are Russian (half of those being primary contemporary accounts), an additional 10-15 are accounts of foreigners either living in Russia or working for the Russian government at the time, another 20-30 of the sources dealing with subjects outside of Russia and being added to give an international perspective, leaving 30-40 sources written about Russia outside of Russia after the fact. Can we please drop it now because I really hate having to prove Luckymoose right?

 

[Circuit]

...Franco-boner...

My new favorite word. (Sadly, though, I don't know where to use it out of this context.)

*sigh* Being an economics major in a world of history majors is lonely business. Although Crezth is probably more lonely; he's an engineer.

And while he's here, will we be seeing any new art from Ahigin? I noticed last update there was no new Ahigin art. That was sad.

 

[TheLastJacobite]

And while he's here, will we be seeing any new art from Ahigin? I noticed last update there was no new Ahigin art. That was sad.

I concur! The Crossing of the Dnieper looks good as my background, but I get all ADD if I don't change it every 4-6 weeks...

 

[Jehoshua]

@Jehoshua: Problem with that formula is that Christians aren't really taking you up on your laws. The Jews are.

Perhaps a slight change in the immigration schema is in order then.

 

[Ahigin]

And while he's here, will we be seeing any new art from Ahigin? I noticed last update there was no new Ahigin art. That was sad.

I'm still catching up on the art for the last update (it will still be topical for the new one is my guess), and also EQ has proposed an epic picture for the new update, which I may or may not be able to finish by the time it's due. At least one art piece will be ready by the time EQ updates the game.

P.S. Ok, let's drop the Peter the Great discussion if you want, since at this point people manage to ignore even the original documents in favor of their own judgement. It makes no sense, thus, probably is not worth the time spent.

 

[Circuit]

I'm still catching up on the art for the last update (it will still be topical for the new one is my guess), and also EQ has proposed an epic picture for the new update, which I may or may not be able to finish by the time it's due. At least one art piece will be ready by the time EQ updates the game.

P.S. Ok, let's drop the Peter the Great discussion if you want, since at this point people manage to ignore even the original documents in favor of their own judgement. It makes no sense, thus, probably is not worth the time spent.

Epic? ...that has me concerned (unless it's the terrible thing that happened to me this year that I already know about). But I would not object to a (somewhat) delayed update so the art gets finished, but that's just me.

 

[christos200]

That's just how Lucky rolls. You get use to it after a while (though I still sometimes want to pull my hair out and run out of the house raving mad).

The conversation about Russia certainly was interesting. Regarding Greece, I have doubts about modern Greece's tie with ancient Greece, due to a major interruption known as the Ottoman Empire that threw Islamic influences into the mix (the Byzantine Empire isn't really a disruption because they adopted Greek culture and kept it going). So I would imagine that the NES's Roman Empire has far more in common with ancient Greece and can be seen as more of a continuation of Greek culture than modern Greece.

But that's just a theory. I don't claim to be an expert on anything, much less history. If Americans don't know much history (as everyone else seems to say, according to you), that might be because the history that interests Americans (like most people) is their own, and it must be an amazing history considering how a country with less than 300 years of history has been able to reach the point it's at today. I'll also remind you the guy running this NES is both an American and a history major in college. However, let's not let this thread turn into Europeans vs. Americans.

The Greeks have more in common with the Byzantines that the Ancient Greeks. In fact, there are many people, even to this day, who call themselves Romioi, Romans. Byzantium was a Greek Empire, after the 7th century. It was hellenized in the same way, for example, the Qing were sinicized.

And I do not mean to insult the Americans. I just use this, when some Americans get arrogant and make fun of Greece.

 

[Crezth]

*sigh* Being an economics major in a world of history majors is lonely business. Although Crezth is probably more lonely; he's an engineer.

I'm learning a lot.

 

[Luckymoose]

P.S. Ok, let's drop the Peter the Great discussion if you want, since at this point people manage to ignore even the original documents in favor of their own judgement. It makes no sense, thus, probably is not worth the time spent.

Says the guy who doesn't know what the original documents say. You can play this little game of pretend all you want, Ahigin, but you've lost. You've proven your knowledge of history is not on par with mine, or the others here. None of us are altering history to suit our argument. You're defending your homeland and I get that. But you can't keep playing this, "you're wrong despite all the evidence" game.

Back on topic for CI:

@Circuit: What happened to Britain?

 

[Jehoshua]

Diminution of Empire?

 

[Masada]

Being an economics major in a world of history majors is lonely business.

Not at all.

 

[Shadowbound]

*sigh* Being an economics major in a world of history majors is lonely business.

'sup.

 

[Ahigin]

As a little tease on the art, the picture I'm working on depicts a scene in Brazil, and the next one will take place in one war-torn city of the American continent.

A little wrap up of the Peter the Great's discussion. I just re-read History of Russia from the Ancient Times (Istoriya Rossii s drevneishikh vremen) by Solovev's, and it totally supports EVERYTHING I said about Peter the Great. If you want to trust the opinion of your favorite author, it's fine, but he openly contradicts the most competent Russian source he was using (I actually recommend finding and reading a translated version of Solovev's book if you do want to know more about Russian history). If you'd like, I'll PM you direct quotes from his book (I don't think anyone wants to continue the argument in this thread). Trust me, even if you continue disagreeing with me for any personal reason you have, it's fun to read about how the Russian Tsar was enjoying his glass of champagne during his visit in Hannover, up until somebody told him it was French champagne, after which Peter broke the glass, spit the drink out and cursed the French using heavy Russian swearing.

 

[Luckymoose]

Whatever floats your highly uneducated boat, bro.

(I actually recommend finding and reading a translated version of Solovev's book if you do want to know more about Russian history).

If I wanted to read dated and bias histories, I'd read good ones.

 

[Ahigin]

Lucky, now I know that Henry Rollins wrote this song about you: http://youtu.be/I6RXKZZumTc

 

[Luckymoose]

Lucky, now I know that Henry Rollins wrote this song about you: http://youtu.be/I6RXKZZumTc

Whatever you say, man. I'm the educated one backed up by every educated person here and in the field of history. Doesn't bother me in the least that you're incorrect, but at least learn to shut your mouth.