Carthage

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

Effective because you can buy a Worker on Turn 1 and as you expand you can purchase military to protect your assets.

Interesting. I play Carthage right now, and I pondered whether I should buy a worker early. But since it can only build farms at the very start, I delayed it. Spent my early money on scout and shrine.

 

[Funak]

Interesting. I play Carthage right now, and I pondered whether I should buy a worker early. But since it can only build farms at the very start, I delayed it. Spent my early money on scout and shrine.

Yeah I pretty much always use the gold to buy a scout, sometimes I save the rest to buy another scout when available, sometimes I rush the monument or the shrine.

 

[Horvath Broncos]

I always buy a scout and rush shrine with the first gold. Then usually spend the next one to worker.

 

[isau]

I go with the Worker first. That's because a Worker takes multiple turns to complete a project, so I want him started on improvements right away. A farm for example will go live after about 7 turns. If the Worker comes later, you're always a few turns behind.

I can potentially see the value of popping a Scout first, but I still would prefer the Scout to be late and be sure to have a Worker than the other way around. That way when the Worker finishes the first farms he can immediately run and improve the luxuries next.

However I can see how popping a Worker first might be less important if you go with the middle policy tree (sorry I forget the name of it).

 

[Stalker0]

I go with the Worker first. That's because a Worker takes multiple turns to complete a project, so I want him started on improvements right away. A farm for example will go live after about 7 turns. If the Worker comes later, you're always a few turns behind.

I can potentially see the value of popping a Scout first, but I still would prefer the Scout to be late and be sure to have a Worker than the other way around. That way when the Worker finishes the first farms he can immediately run and improve the luxuries next.

The thing to remember is that very early in the game, the worker actually doesn't do that much. It takes a while to build an improvement and the bonuses are relatively small. The scout can get some sizable bonuses from huts (more gold, culture, more land....aka access to better resources). For example, if you befriend a maritime civ, you will get far more food in the early game than that 1 farm on your capital, and that's just one of the things the scout can get you.

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

Yes, there are usually better tiles (even unimproved) than a 3/0/0 or 2/1/0 farm.
If there is some wheat or a couple of flood plains around, things look different though.

 

[Magil]

The real problem with a 2/1 farm is that a forest or jungle has the same yield. It's somewhat start-dependent, but I rarely go early worker with any Civ in VP just because the yields aren't as important as getting the culture/faith rolling early.

 

[Funak]

The real problem with a 2/1 farm is that a forest or jungle has the same yield. It's somewhat start-dependent, but I rarely go early worker with any Civ in VP just because the yields aren't as important as getting the culture/faith rolling early.

Also you're pretty likely to find a cow or a bison on the tile you've just farmed making the turns wasted. Starting with a worker definitely isn't bad (especially if you for example have wheat nearby) but getting a turn 1 scout is pretty much always better.
I mean if getting an early worker was such an advantage worker first would be a way more viable strategy.

 

[Magil]

There's also the CS worker steal which is still quite viable as far as I can tell, if just as cheesy as ever.

 

[Funak]

There's also the CS worker steal which is still quite viable as far as I can tell, if just as cheesy as ever.

Never done that, so I just consider that option non-existent. I have however attacked a neighbor to take his worker, but that usually doesn't end up being worth it.

 

[ExpiredReign]

Also you're pretty likely to find a cow or a bison on the tile you've just farmed making the turns wasted. Starting with a worker definitely isn't bad (especially if you for example have wheat nearby) but getting a turn 1 scout is pretty much always better.
I mean if getting an early worker was such an advantage worker first would be a way more viable strategy.

This is precisely why I delay getting a worker until the major early resources: horses, iron, bison, etc. are revealed. There are few things more infuriating than improving a tile only to have a resource appear under it and all that work is wasted.

 

[Txurce]

I have however attacked a neighbor to take his worker, but that usually doesn't end up being worth it.

Really? I can't remember ever being sorry. The worst that happens is losing the worker (or settler). I think I always get peace well before I have to respond by building more units.

Related, I have a theory that if a settler is out unprotected, the AI civ either has no units or has them out exploring, and is ripe for the picking. I may not be able to take it without a focused effort, but I have permanently crippled two civs (Mayans, Polynesia) recently using only a single, well-promoted scout.

It kinda shocked me, but it's happened twice now.

 

[Funak]

Really? I can't remember ever being sorry. The worst that happens is losing the worker (or settler). I think I always get peace well before I have to respond by building more units.

Related, I have a theory that if a settler is out unprotected, the AI civ either has no units or has them out exploring, and is ripe for the picking. I may not be able to take it without a focused effort, but I have permanently crippled two civs (Mayans, Polynesia) recently using only a single, well-promoted scout.

It kinda shocked me, but it's happened twice now.

I usually get stuck in 100 turn long wars that just stifles my ability to trade and send caravans, and with building a worker being like a 4 turn investment I just don't find it worth it. Besides, getting big penalties with my neighbors really never helped me accomplish anything.


I'm not saying that your style is bad or wrong I'm just saying that it's not my style.

 

[Txurce]

... with building a worker being like a 4 turn investment I just don't find it worth it.

Even if it's worked out for me when I do it, I agree with your pov. I don't go for workers very often. But I do go for undefended settlers early every time I see them. The longterm damage done to a rival seems worth it.

 

[ExpiredReign]

Even if it's worked out for me when I do it, I agree with your pov. I don't go for workers very often. But I do go for undefended settlers early every time I see them. The longterm damage done to a rival seems worth it.

Absolutely! This is my 'goto' strategy also for lonely settlers. The AI seems to turtle up and try and build military units to counter you and therefore never builds the infrastructure to support a long term war, if they last that long.

 

[Funak]

I do feel kinda cheesy picking off AI settlers, I know it sets them back, but do I really need to exploit their faulty (sorry ilteroi) escortlogic to win the game?

Anyways sometimes when I see one moving towards a location I want to settle and it seems like it will make it there first I do strike, so I'm a hypocrite

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I do feel kinda cheesy picking off AI settlers, I know it sets them back, but do I really need to exploit their faulty (sorry ilteroi) escortlogic to win the game?

Anyways sometimes when I see one moving towards a location I want to settle and it seems like it will make it there first I do strike, so I'm a hypocrite

Same with me. I don't know why the escort logic broke - I remember a few patches ago settlers would almost always be accompanied. Now? AI sends them alone to be eaten by wolves, or rather enslaved by me.

 

[PapaRockett]

How does the resource diversity work? Does it only count for trade routes from a specific city that has multiple resources, or is it based on global resources?

 

[pineappledan]

Hey, so there has been a relatively recent boost in CS on triremes and quinqueremes. It's got 18CS unlocked at fishing. That is a big number for ancient era; I'm wondering if people are finding that the quinquereme is a bit strong right now? It shouldn't be hard to take a few cities with 2 quinqueremes with numbers that big

 

[randomnub]

They're strong but that's exactly what you deserve for a niche UU with relative short window of opportunity. You can take but have difficulty keeping cities if you only assault them from sea (and lose the pricy QQ on the counterattack). They used to be quite OP for Tribute but those yelds are also nothing unbalancing nowadays, in normal circumstances.