Causes and Effects of the London/England Riots

I was watching BBC world service, and they interviewed a restaurateur whose restaurant was damaged during the riot. When the anchorman asked him about what he thought about the cause of the riot, and mentioned social exclusion, unemployment, and poverty, the man said something like

"oh give me a break! Those guys had all designer clothes, iPhones, or blackberries, and they obviously came to steal and have fun breaking things."

I must say, I am alarmed by the number of people who're prepared to excuse this behaviour in any way. Also, the British riot police seem to be surprisingly inept - which may have something to do with the seeming lack of proper gear. Our "těžkooděnci" would crush these thugs much more easily.
 
tweets from the football editor of the Times

First off, I don’t know what’s best. But this is what I do know. Unlike most of you, I’ve fought with police, I’ve thrown missiles at them. I’ve kicked in shop windows and looted stuff. I was born into an area that people told me was full of ‘the dregs of society’. I’ve been young, poor and angry. I’ve felt there was no opportunity in life and all that stretched in front was a bleak, penniless future. And I know that most people with happy, fulfilled lives don’t go on rampages of violence. I also know that successive Governments have put the pursuit of wealth ahead of maintaining a sense of community. When you’ve been told there’s no society, why would you care about other people? When you see the bankers nearly destroy capitalism and still get their bonuses, what do you think of personal responsibility? The key is making people believe they have opportunities in life, not opportunities to loot. And maybe the money spent intervening in a civil war in Libya would be better spent on schools.

I could go on, but most of you have made up your minds. You get the society you create. Enjoy it

Hopefully that can give you some insight into how some of these people feel.

The twitter account
 
You get the society you create. Enjoy it

Exactly, thats why my high street is propserous and safe and my neighborhood is happy and people are considerate of others.

These rioters willfully destroy there own society. They themselves are solely responsible.
 
There isn't much to destroy, when for these people, their society is already collapsing and decaying around them.

You should be glad you live in a good part of England, many do not.
 
Oh, and here's a genuine question I'd like an answer to:

why are most of these rioters black?

Are there any race issues in Britain I am not aware of?
 
You have to understand that Black Youths are disproportionately stopped and searched (along with Asians as well) by the police, couple this with the poverty that exist in these areas and the feeling of abandonment, it is surprising that this hadn't happened earlier.
 
Eh, proximate local issue - killing of dood - leads to riot, which is understandable; subsequent poor police response leads to opportunity for some, perhaps for political reasons (i.e. anarchists), other local matters (similar to the first instance, using it as a basis for their own action) and still other groups of looters taking advantage of perceived police weakness to do their own thing; subsequent blame is put on 'poverty' and other general factors, which ignore more specific local grievances, politically motivated destruction of property and general criminality, which are almost certainly not linked: these factors are then used for cheap political fodder for both sides; the Left sees it as a chance to get back at the government ‘that nobody voted for’ apparently; while the Right uses it as an excuse to ignore substantive policy matters, instead focusing on the criminal element; CFC discussion becomes a question of RACE, POVERTY and EVAL TORIES.
 
There isn't much to destroy, when for these people, their society is already collapsing and decaying around them.

You should be glad you live in a good part of England, many do not.

My highstreet doesn't have a foot locker tho :(
 
Citation needed. The footage I've seen shows mostly white rioters.

The footage I've seen on BBC shows mostly blacks doing the looting and rioting (=non-whites, non-asians, to be politically correct). And when I say mostly, I mean it.

You have to understand that Black Youths are disproportionately stopped and searched (along with Asians as well) by the police, couple this with the poverty that exist in these areas and the feeling of abandonment, it is surprising that this hadn't happened earlier.

See my earlier post. It seems that the stealing and looting was done by people who are reasonably well off. I don't buy all that nonsense about "feeling abandoned" at all. We have poorer people in this country too, even (well, especially) among certain minority groups, and they don't do these things.
 
How can you even be sure, Winner, when most of the rioters conceal their faces/Identities?
 
How can you even be sure, Winner, when most of the rioters conceal their faces/Identities?

I am not colour blind. From what I've seen on TV so far (take this at face value), the hoodies and other looters shown were mostly black. Which is why I am asking whether there was any racial component to this whole affair.
 
Even if poverty is the cause, giving these people more money can't be the solution. The reaction to throw more money at them in the hopes of appeasing them reeks of mugging writ large, for if the "poor" are to act out violently every time they want an increase in benefits, peaceable Britons are in effect held ransom by these people, subsidizing them under the threat of violence.

This is tough to take seriously, ama, since "less welfare!" is your answer to so many problems. (I admit that I'm prone to the opposite.) Suppose poverty is the cause - you don't want to "give these people more money". What would you do? Do you attempt to fix the problem, or just secure the cage? What do you think the cause(s) is/are?

I think its laughable to see these riots called a "protest". Calling this a protest is insulting to genuine political activists worldwide. What point are you making when you break into the local Diesel shop with a binbag and a mask?

Well, the Duggan-memorial part was protest, wasn't it? Anybody calling the sum total "protest" is confused, but likewise not everyone on the streets was an arsonist.

I must say, I am alarmed by the number of people who're prepared to excuse this behaviour in any way.

People keep complaining about that, but I'm not seeing it. :confused:

Eh, proximate local issue - killing of dood - leads to riot, which is understandable; subsequent poor police response leads to opportunity for some, perhaps for political reasons (i.e. anarchists), other local matters (similar to the first instance, using it as a basis for their own action) and still other groups of looters taking advantage of perceived police weakness to do their own thing; subsequent blame is put on 'poverty' and other general factors, which ignore more specific local grievances, politically motivated destruction of property and general criminality, which are almost certainly not linked: these factors are then used for cheap political fodder for both sides; the Left sees it as a chance to get back at the government ‘that nobody voted for’ apparently; while the Right uses it as an excuse to ignore substantive policy matters, instead focusing on the criminal element; CFC discussion becomes a question of RACE, POVERTY and EVAL TORIES.

This sounds reasonable. :hmm: Do we need to pay attention to the anarchists and opportunists? How do you answer this (do you think it needs to be answered?)
 
Leaving aside the specific motivations of protesters (of whom there seem to have been very few) and criminals (of whom there seem to have been many), I've picked out what seem to me to be some of the main causes:

*An exaggerated sense of hopelessness, resulting from left- and right-wing political attitudes towards the young and the poor. Relentlessly portrayed as either victims of society, or parasites on it, many young people grow up seeing themselves as destined for nothing better than benefit dependence and/or criminality. It's important to note here that the problem - as far as these riots are concerned - is not material poverty or social immobility. It is, rather, that there is a profoundly negative image imposed by society at large, which, for some young people, is more easily dealt with by rejecting society and its norms altogether.

*The relentless influence of 'gangsta' ideals in urban culture, promoting the glorification of criminality and the obsession with material wealth. It's worth noting that this influence is far from uniform - there are plenty of UK hip-hop artists (for example) who argue against such malign ideals. It is, perhaps, more of a reflection on our media culture that those more positive voices tend to be ignored in favour of their more glamorous, bling-draped contemporaries. In any case, I believe that the 'gangsta' influence is instrumental in nurturing the attitudes behind much of the semi-organised looting we've seen over recent days.

*The repeated and massive failure of the Metropolitan Police. Policing in rougher areas of London is regarded by many as having only two settings: hyper-aggressive and non-existent. Corruption is thought to be widespread, and to begin at the very top (the latter being proven recently through the hacking scandal). A leadership culture has developed wherein accepting any responsibility is career suicide, and the principal goal is always to deny and cover up any failings on the part of particular officers or the Met in general. With regards to the weekend's events: on the one hand, we could see long-festering enmity towards the Met begin to overflow. On the other hand, we once again saw the service make a mess of things and then fail to take any responsibility for its mistakes. Indeed, watching TV and listening to the radio these last days, I've heard a relentless flow of self-justification from the Met and its supporters, coupled with repeated attempts to shift any blame onto the policies of this government or the previous one. After the dust settles on what is, after all, just the latest in a very long line of disasters over which Scotland Yard has presided, I would suggest that serious questions need to be asked about whether the Met, in its present form, can any longer be regarded as fit for purpose.

(With regards to other places where rioting has broken out, I am unsure whether their police forces should also be looked at with a critical eye. Clearly, the problems spread across and then out of London as gangs recognised the opportunity. It may be that the rest simply had to deal with the knock-on effects of the Met's failure. On the other hand, it could be that legitimate local grievances with the police were also a factor in encouraging the riots.)
 
*An exaggerated sense of hopelessness, resulting from left- and right-wing political attitudes towards the young and the poor. Relentlessly portrayed as either victims of society, or parasites on it, many young people grow up seeing themselves as destined for nothing better than benefit dependence and/or criminality. It's important to note here that the problem - as far as these riots are concerned - is not material poverty or social immobility. It is, rather, that there is a profoundly negative image imposed by society at large, which, for some young people, is more easily dealt with by rejecting society and its norms altogether.

Generation conflict? Perhaps. It wouldn't be surprising.

*The relentless influence of 'gangsta' ideals in urban culture, promoting the glorification of criminality and the obsession with material wealth. It's worth noting that this influence is far from uniform - there are plenty of UK hip-hop artists (for example) who argue against such malign ideals. It is, perhaps, more of a reflection on our media culture that those more positive voices tend to be ignored in favour of their more glamorous, bling-draped contemporaries. In any case, I believe that the 'gangsta' influence is instrumental in nurturing the attitudes behind much of the semi-organised looting we've seen over recent days.

For that, I blame not only the media but also commercial advertisement. "gangsta culture" is a commercial product, people want to sell all that "bling".
 
You have to understand that Black Youths are disproportionately stopped and searched (along with Asians as well) by the police, couple this with the poverty that exist in these areas and the feeling of abandonment, it is surprising that this hadn't happened earlier.

remember also that the media will use this opportunity to apply more racist inuendo's just to make a headline in the news. they want what sells and racism sells, an mainly because the mainstream responds to racism. apply the negative image and watch the negative energy soar across the world.
 
You have to understand that Black Youths are disproportionately stopped and searched (along with Asians as well) by the police, couple this with the poverty that exist in these areas and the feeling of abandonment, it is surprising that this hadn't happened earlier.

Apart from the fact that they are statistically much more likely to be involved in crime. Whatever the reasons for that (and I'm not claiming Aryan superiority by any means), it makes sense to target your policing where it's most likely to be needed or to do good. It would actually be a form of racism NOT to police in that manner just for fear of offending people. You can look into the reasons why this might be, and take measures to try and make society fairer, but that's not a job for the police. Their job is to police things as they are, not start social reform.
 
Exactly, thats why my high street is propserous and safe and my neighborhood is happy and people are considerate of others.
There haven't been any rioters in my town, either, and I live in the town where they film The Scheme. I think that you're oversimplifying things if you chose to pose it as a contrast between shiftless plebians and upstanding yeoman.

Yes, let's have a handful of morons confirm our prejudices. That's the way to get an objective look at these events.
 
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