1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

CCM2 Epic Mod

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by Civinator, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. lethaltoto

    lethaltoto Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    Hi,
    First, congratulations for your amazing mod, Civinator ! :thumbsup: it's evident that you spend an enormous amount of time to build it, and you can be proud of what you have done !
    I'm giving a first try to it as Nubia, and here are a few points I can already talk about:

    1 - ERROR/MISTAKE:

    - The holy man unit upgrade to Mullah for Nubia. That's not a real problem concerning the gameplay (the unit do the job), but that's not correct since Nubia is a christian civ, so they should receive missionnary instead.

    - In the pedia, GOLD is described as a bonus ressource. In reality it's a luxury. For players discovering the mod (as me) it can be a problem because they will not give the same attention to a bonus ressource than they should give to a luxury. I discover it when my civ-assist advised me that an other civ had some gold to sold…

    - No advance gives the possibility to sign military alliances !
    Is that intentional? I Don't think so. On the pedia entrie for WRITTING science, it just talk about the ability to sign ROP. But in the "EMBASSIES" entrie it's said that since a civ discover writting they can sign rop AND military alliance.
    According to that I associated military alliance to writting in the editor, for my futur games

    2 - THINGS THAT (PERHAPS) SHOULD BE BETTER:

    - The FORGE building never becomes obsolete. For now I'm still playing in the age of Discovery so it's still okay, but I already imagine that it will be a little Strange to still have a production bonus in my cities thanks to a forge during the atomic age…

    - The LATE PIKEMEN have a too short lifetime, and even sometime no lifetime at all. Renaissance and Gun powder being both firt sciences of the era, MUSKTEMEN come too fast to replace LATE PIKEMEN. In my game I discovered gunpowder before renaissance, so my old spearmen jumped directly to musketmen. Perhaps you should consider to move all the units of musketmen class currently associated to gunpowder to BALLISTICS, and then move the units of MUKETEER class (currently associated to ballistics) to ABSOLUTISM. This way those musketeer would become avalaible the same time than grenadier (their offensive counterpart, so not really Strange)) and will still have a descent lifetime since you need a lot of other techs to jump to the next stage, ENLIGHTENMENT.

    - The ARTILLERY class units: I know it's one of your major ideas in CCM (1 and 2), but I dislike it. Okay, IA can manage them better. But they are no more artillery. Just some other fast attack units with defense bombardment. Except graphics, I Don't see major différences between a catapult and a horse archer for exemple. I easily imagine that you won't change that, but it was just to give my opinion :)
     
  2. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    I will do an announcement in this thread, when the update is ready. At present I´m still in a testgame if all is running now well.
     
  3. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi Gojira54,

    thank you very much for your lasting interest in CCM2. :)
     
  4. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    lethaltoto, thank you very much for your interest in CCM2 and for your highly appreciated input. :)

    Nubia has a Christian and a Muslim tradition. According to the wikipedia, the Christian kingdoms of Nubia were the first to experience Arab incursion starting in the 7th century. They held out through the Middle Ages until the Kingdom of Makuria and Old Dongola both collapsed in the early 14th century. Sufi orders played a significant role in the spread of Islam from the 9th to 14th centuries. Consequently, much of contemporary Sudan is Muslim. This includes the Republic of Sudan (after the secession of Christian South Sudan), the northern parts of Chad and Niger, most of Mali, Mauritania and Senegal.

    So I think we can live with the Mullah.

    lethaltoto, thank you very much for reporting this error. :) It will be fixed in the next update of the civilopedia.

    Yes, this is intended. There was a former version of CCM1, when I formed building alliances as a special trait for some civs (diplomatic trait for Britain anf France). The result was, that both civs didn´t benefit from this trait when played by the AI, but mostly were the first civs that were eliminated in the game as many other civs -and of course always the human civ - persuaded them in entering more and more wars. As it seems, this ability helps more to the human player than to the AI I left alliances cut out. The entry in the civilopedia will be fixed. Thank you very much for reporting that error. :)

    Unfortunately in Civ 3 a building cannot be renamed during the game. In era 3 and 4 the image of the forge is changing to the image of a workshop. When setting this building in the editor, I reflected about naming it workshop - but it is one of only two normal buildings, that give a boost in production over a long period in era1 and here the name forge sounds somewhat better than workshop - and there is still a special workshop for siege weapons as a SW in the game.

    lethaltoto, it seems you were lucky in your game to have access to saltpeter in your cities. Frequently this is quite different and without the access to saltpeter you will recognize the value of the late pikemen very soon, as these units don´t need a strategic resource to be built. This kind of setting appear several times in CCM2: To have a stronger unit that can be built with access to a special resource and a new unit, that is better than the old unit, but weaker than the new stronger unit, that can be built without that resource (per example you can build Mig-21 fighters with oil, but at the same time you can build weaker Mig-19 fighters when not having oil).

    The difference between a catapult and a horsearcher is that the horsearcher is much more mobile than the catapult, while the catapult has a better attack value. So with a short glimpse in the editor one should think, both units have a movement factor of two, there must be taken into account, that the basic movement costs in CCM are much higher as in standard Civ 3. The horsearcher has a lot of movement advantages in many different terrains, while the catapult (and most other artillery units) is always 'marching to the top of a mountain', giving those artillery units a speed of only 1 movement point in the game, if there is no road on that tile. The reason for giving the artillery units two MV points (that in reality are cut down mostly to one MV point) is that a unit with two MV points can retreat from combat. As most defensive units in CCM2 have only one MV point, the artillery units can soften up the defenders and have a chance to retreat when their attacks are running bad (and softening up the defenders was also the job of the original Civ 3 artillery, too).

    The other side of the medal is, that the AI frequently uses the CCM artillery like an exploring unit (so the explore-flag is disabled for those units), moving it without a defense unit over the map. Here I´m hpoing that there will be a time, when those artillery unit graphics are combined with normal infantry units and these artillery units not only have a good attack value, but also a considerable defense, making those units a kind of an army unit in CCM2.

    Meanwhile I think the setting for artillery in CCM2 is still the best available in Civ 3. A lot was experimented and written about fixing the spoiled AI routine for landartillery, but until now there wasn´t found any fuil convincing solution for fixing that programming desaster done by Firaxis. Using standard Civ 3 landartillery -especially in combination with railroads - for me is no fun and has so massive consequences against the AI, that in my eyes it is something next to cheating.
     
  5. lethaltoto

    lethaltoto Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    Thanks a lot for your detailled answers, Civinator
    Things are clearer :)

    Here are some other bugs/error I found during my game:

    - In pedia, concerning military police limit, in all governments description it's said that town size is from 1 to 8 and city is from 9 to 15. In fact it's 1 to 10 and 11 to infinite. Once again not so important, but for new players to the mod, it is.

    - the early plane Hawkers fury has a production cost of 0 and so can be built for just 1 shield

    - Boats "Iron duke class WWII" and "Espana class WWII" are completly missing in the Art units folder (and so lead to a game crash concerning the INI file missing)

    - The "Mobile Warfare" science pedia entrie says a SW called "Battle Cruiser dock" becomes obsolete with this tech. This SW doesn't exist. Is it an other one that is supposed to become obsolete, or just Simply Nothing?

    - Searching for Something else, I found in the editor that the science "Advanced Composites" doesn't have the "no tradable" check. Still being in the industrial age I don't have yet have been able to verify if we can really trade it, but I think so.

    - It's NOT written in the pedia that the science "Improved Ammunition" is not tradable. By the way, it's the only one of the first sciences of the industrial age that is not tradable. Is it intended, or is it the pedia that is correct ? ;)


    - One last bug, but I'm not sure if it comes from the mod or from my game installation :rolleyes:
    When a boat (or a pack of boats) "meet" a submarine by mistake during the automatic moves stage, the game freeze. No crash but the game is stuck as if it was waiting for the next step, that never comes. And the only things to do is to kill the game and relaunch. That was not isolated, it happened already 3 times.


    Finally, one question:
    What was your purpose when you decided that all techs from atomic age, and the most part of the industrial age, wouldn't be tradable?
    Simple Curiosity :)
    Anyway, after being a little destabilized when I discover it, I have to admit that it's a great idea. It gives a fully use to spy missions, that were not honestly really usefull in the original game.

    Once again, you did an amazing job with this mod !! :thumbsup:
     
  6. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    lethaltoto, thank you very much for your continuing interest in CCM2 and for reporting some errors in this mod. :)

    This error will be fixed in the next version of the civilopedia.


    The errors in the building costs for the Spanish, African and Persian Hawker Furies now is fixed for the biq of CCM2.5. The costs are now 110 shields each.
    Thank you very much for reporting these wrong settings. :)

    The CCM2.4 biq was done in a hurry, so the players of the current CCM2 succession game were able to start their new game before i went to my holidays. I forgot to set back the placeholder entries in the PRTO_links for some of the Dreadnoughts WW2 to the normal PRTO_entries for those dreadnoughts, if no special AA animation was found for them. This is fixed in the upcoming CCM2.5 biq by simply adjusting the PRTO_links of those units to the name of the normal folders of those dreadnoughts. Besides the Iron Duke class WWII and the Espana class WWII, there are other Dreadnoughts WW2 with that problem, p.e. the Tegetthoff Class WWII and the Conte di Cavour Class WWII (the last one will receive new unit graphics with CCM2.5).

    For continuing a current game with CCM2.4 it is necessairy to create dummy unit folders by copying the normal unit folders of those dreadnoughts and renaming the folders and the unit.INI files inside these folders to the names of those dreadnoughts with the suffix WW2 when those crashes are appearing.

    The Battlecruiser Dock in CCM2.4 was combined with the Cruiser Project SW to gain one of the precious 256 building slots for another needed building in CCM2. The entry for becoming obsolete with tech Mobile Warfare now is obsolete itself. Thank you very much for pointing to this error. :)

    This error is existing since a longer time in many CCM1 and CCM2 biqs, but nobody had found it yet. Thank you very much for your sharp eyes and reporting this error. :) It is fixed now for the CCM2.5 biq. The tech should be not tradeable.

    This is another error that was also reported during the current CCM2 succession game. It is fixed now for the CCM2.5 biq. :)

    This is a very interesting report, as such an behaviour was never reported by anyone else and I have never seen it in all my CCM games. I´m very interested in hearing more about it as the 'submarine bug' is one of the unsolved problems in C3C and may be this unusual behaviour is helping in understanding the submarine bug a little better.

    In your report it is open, if the behaviour is happening when running in the submarines of another civ (the classical submarine bug) or if it also happens, when meeting other ships of your own civ in the same tile - but for both of these possibilities the reaction of a freeze is completely unusual. If AI ships run into my ships they immediately trigger war without any freeze and it is also no problem to combine my own submarines and other ships in the same tile. On the other side, sometimes I have the feeling that there are situations when the AI really tries to avoid running in my ships, but on the other side again, frequently they are running in the only submarine I have in the whole ocean. In my current testgame I made a trap for a Hebrew sailing boat so they should run into one of my subs and trigger war while I receive longer war happiness with that action -but the Hebrew sailing boat made a big bow around that trap on the way to its colony. :thumbsup:



    With the start of era 3 at big maps, the costs of techs and and the costs of trading for techs are running out of balance, especially for human players who in this phase of the game mostly have more cities than each of the AI players in a mod with reduced corruption settings, as it is in CCM. This was one of the main reasons, why in earlier versions of CCM I made all techs of era 3, starting with the second row of the techtree 'not tradeable'. On the other side with CCM2.4 I thought, it would be nice if there exist more civs with WWI techs in the game. That´s why in CCM2.4 I set the second row of era 3 techs to be tradeable.

    The other thought about this setting was indeed to make espionage more useful. :yup: In that phase of the game the human player mostly has enough gold to buy such a tech or even to steal it by espionage - but the espionage mission bears the additional risk, to draw the human player into a war, that is not wanted at that time. I have the feeling the espionage missions could even be more improved in the settings of CCM, but until now, I haven´t found the best settings for some of those missions, especially for bribing complete cities. In an early version of CCM1, I reduced the costs of such bribings massively, but on the other hand there were some players, who bought nearly all newly founded cities of other civs with that setting.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  7. Inoé

    Inoé Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Wow!!
    I had not seen this before! Amazing work Civinator. I will try to play it on my mac installed game... :p

    One question, is there any way to prevent the AI from declaring war in each other when a maritime unit which cannot see submarines meets one while on route?
     
  8. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    Inoé, Thank you for your kind words about CCM2. :) This is a giant project with more than 2.500 different units and allowing games on smaller maps, but with a lot of fun, too. Please wait a little bit with the download, as a new version will be coming soon, fixing many errors form the version 2.4.

    The only way to stop the submarine bug in C3C is to set the submarines to HN-units or to set them as normal over-water-units. Both options have so many disadvantages that I didn´t use them. The submarine bug is an old bug, that was fixed for Civ 3 Vanilla, but came back with the Civ 3 expansions.
     
  9. Inoé

    Inoé Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Excelent work indeed!
    I am trying it a bit and looks great, really.

    I was playing and came to this error: "File not found: Art/units/enslaved worker/enslaved worker.ini
    I guess an AI faction enslaved a unit and something is wrong with the slave worker file...

    I also noticed that mines cannot be built in grassland as this terrain does not get any extra shields. Is there a way to fix or revert that? Production is really slowed down because of this.

    And also, the only thing I do not really like is the fact that artillery units have become offensive and do not have the bombardment option. In CCM1 I edited most of the units with C3C editor, but here there are too many units to modify one by one. Is there a way to change this fastly?

    Congrats for the good work. The mod really looks impressive.
     
  10. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    May be here something went wrong with the installation of CCM2. The CCM2 files must be unzipped into the Conquest mainfolder after you have created backip-folders for your original folders. I have noticed that at page 1 of the CCM2 thread a screenshot showing that part of the installation was gone. I did replace it now.

    My guess is, that you haven´t unzipped the CCM2 files into the still existing old art-, text- and sounds folders of the C3C mainfile (after having created backup copies of those folders) and now you receive messages, that the files of those folders are missing. Of course I could have added these files of the original C3C folders to the CCM2-Zip, but the procedure of needing the original C3C files inside these folders is a kind of copy protection assuring that the player has bought C3C.

    This is a change in the CCM2.4 biq (and will also be in the 2.5 biq) giving a better handling for the AI. It could be simply reverted in the editor by setting the terraforming value for Grasland / Mining from zero to one. If doing operations with an editor to CCM1 or CCM2 please use the Firaxis C3C editor 1.00 or the Quitillus editor, as the Firaxis editor 1.03 coming with the patch of C3C holds a bug concerning the scientific leaders.

    This can not be changed quickly. The changes on land artillery were done, as the AI routine for landartillery done by Firaxis is massively spoiled and the AI is not able to handle landartillery at least somewhat properly. In my eyes, at present, the settings of landarty in CCM are still the best setting for those units. At least AI arty now is acting on the map. Landarty will receive a better defense value in the next biq of CCM2.
     
  11. Inoé

    Inoé Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    I did unzip it to the main conquest folder but it did not ask me to replace anything. Instead it created a new folder called "CCM2" with the Arts, Text, and Sound folders inside. What I did was copying those three folders into the main Conquests folder and then replacing all files.

    EDIT: I saw the main post with the new images now and it turns I did something wrong. Let me check again.

    EDIT 2: So I did as the instructions say and extracted the CCM2.rar file to the C3Complete main folder but, again, it did not ask to replace any files. I just created a new folder called CCM2 with all the contents inside... Any ideas?


    Ok, I will give it a tray again.

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  12. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    Inoé, I´m very sure, that the reason for your Art/units/enslaved worker/enslaved worker.ini - crash is a not proper installation (and may be a not completely proper advice for the installation)

    We had several cases of that error in the CCM2 thread, and always it was an error in the installation, that triggered that error. May be the posts and answers to those posts can help you for a proper installation:

    Case1:

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-4#post-15098528
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-4#post-15098767
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-4#post-15099052
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-4#post-15099052


    Case 2:

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/#post-14959809
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/#post-14960067
     
  13. lethaltoto

    lethaltoto Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    Hi,

    A few more error report:

    - The "Carrier" unit is buildable (for 900 shields) while is not supposed to (and be only obtainable thanks to the Carrier Dock SW)

    - There's a big mess around the "guided missile cruiser" unit.
    First, in the text part of the pedia it's said that it is supposed to upgrade into California Class (mainly, except for USA and France). But in the shield/cost part of the pedia we can see that it will effectively upgrade to "Jump Carrier"
    Second, 2 units are supposed to upgrade to this ship: Battleship and Dreadnought WWII. But they Don't. They both rightly dissapear from the production line with Ballistic Missiles discover, but they can't be upgraded.

    - The "art\civilopedia\icons\units\SlavicSpear-SM.pcx" is missing and drive to a game crash when you even just flie over "S" units part of the pedia

    - Is that intended that Mig-21 Fishbed is not carrier capable?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  14. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,552
    Location:
    israel
    well,
    im downloading ccm2 ,
    wish me luck :)
     
  15. tjs282

    tjs282 Disillusionist

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,659
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    This may not actually be an error as such.

    AFAIK, the 'Upgrades to' link in the 'pedia is generated automatically, based on the unit selected in the 'Upgrades to' drop-down menu in the .biq (on the upper left-hand side in the Firaxis editor-window). But in order to be upgraded in-game, the older unit must also have the unit-ability 'Upgrade' checked (on the right-hand side of the Editor-window). If the Upgrade-ability is (deliberately) not checked, then a new tech can cause an older unit(s) to go 'obsolete' (removing it/them from build-lists) without allowing a direct upgrade to the next unit, which must then be built from scratch — and CCM uses this 'obsolescence' mechanic frequently.

    The CCMopedia unit-entries (which were extensively revised for CCM v.2.x) have mostly been edited to note when 'upgrade' = obsolescence. But maybe the Battleship and Dreadnought WWII entries were accidentally overlooked...?
     
  16. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    lethaltoto, thank you very much for your input about CCM2 :) and tjs282 for correctly answering the part of the obsolescence. :)


    That is - as tjs282 explained - exactly what is intended. Here are the screenshots showing the civilopedia entries of the battleship and of the Dreadnought WWII:







    At present I cannot do more, than to write it into the textbox as until now nobody had found a way to delete the hardcoded wrong upgrade entry for the player´s unit (other units don´t hold that hardcoded entry).


    Thank you very much for reporting that error. :) It´s fixed now for biq CCM2.5. I have forgotten to enable the king flag.

    Can you please post, what civ had that problem so I can have a closer look into that entry?


    That error is known since a longer time and I think it was fixed by attaching that graphic to the last upload of the CCM2 mainfile.

    Yes, this intended :yup:. The Mig-21 never flew from a carrier. The same settings happened to most 'first line' Cold War tech fighters (like the Starfighter, Lightning, Mirage III, etc.). These 'first line jets' need special resources to be produced. There are also 'second line jets' coming with that tech and needing no resources for beeing produced. These 'second line jets' can operate from carriers, so in reality they also mostly didn´t operate from them, to give these units a raison d`être.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi keldath, thats a nice surprise. :) Of course I wish you luck! :)
    CCM2 has some different approaches to solve problems like the ICS tactics, compared to most other epic mods of the Civ series. Don´t play the biggest map as you will need a lot of time for finishing such a game. Maps with 180x180 or 226x226 give some very interesting games, too.

    Unfortunately my next update for the CCM2 mainfile, covering also RARR and CCM1 is far from beeing finished yet, due to RL reasons.

    The current CCM2 mainfile and the CCM2.4 biq hold some errors coming with ships at the end of era 2, as I have done those uploads hastily before going in my vacancies, avoiding a delay tin the start of the current CCM2 succession game. I made a small patch for that succession game that can be found here:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/lk159-ccm-2-4-egypt.633796/page-10#post-15193868
     
  18. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,552
    Location:
    israel
    :)
    i never play large maps, i prefer a nice standard map, cant commit myself to a saga game .
    also - i play civ3 , over 10 years ago, so i dont remember much...(im a civ4 modder for 10 y).

    great ill use the latest, thank you so much.

    cheers
     
  19. Inoé

    Inoé Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    29

    I was having some issues with my unzipping app and I had to copy and replace all the files manually but I think I managed. I have been playing for a while without any bugs. So far I am amazed by the level of detail the mod has.
    Very good work!
     
  20. Inoé

    Inoé Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Hi!
    I'm trying the Quintillus Editor but it's giving me some problems. Do you know where I can get the C3C Editor v1.00?
     

Share This Page