That might be a solution for the out of control WLTKD. But then something would of course be done about the rest of the UA, I mean removing the permenent WLTKD would be a MASSIVE blow towards the later game power of the UA. And yes I understand that you probably figured that out by yourself, I just figured someone needed to mention it anyways.
China
- Thread starter BenchBreaker
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That might be a solution for the out of control WLTKD. But then something would of course be done about the rest of the UA, I mean removing the permenent WLTKD would be a MASSIVE blow towards the later game power of the UA. And yes I understand that you probably figured that out by yourself, I just figured someone needed to mention it anyways.
Gokudo01
Emperor
- I dont have any issue with strong early game that have fewer impact lategame (hello shoshone) . So I dont understand the funak's crusade with Ua scaling.
- About the Ua, the capital is still perma wltk and mandate of heaven bonus can snowball you like crazy. But I think you should keep the culture bonus because the food bonus is not that great with progress or authority start. I think you should (like spain) remove the bonus from the capital settling. It will greatly reduces the snowball potential. Now if you want to remove the wltkd triggers frim settling conquering or creating a gw, you will have to be careful to not go from overtuned to underwhelming.
- About the ub, I think it s descent with food bonus because it gives the small gold bonus to fight the poverty from extra population.
tu_79
Deity
I don't know if this is intended, but I think that Mandate of Heaven bonuses only apply when beginning a WLTED. And by that, I mean that when a city is in a permanent WLTED (that's not very difficult to achieve) it doesn't get any more bonuses.
This is the reason why my test with the Great Merchant didn't yield anything. All my cities were having a WLTED, so it only added 20 more turns.
Conquering several cities in a row didn't give the bonuses either. Producing great works once in a permanent WLTED didn't do anything other that increase the length of it. I had 90 turns of WLTED in Beijing.
I see the appeal to have an amazing early eras and then keep growing to capitalize on it, but the description is misleading. I'd prefer if it gives the bonuses every time, and decays stronger with the Dinasty thing.
This is the reason why my test with the Great Merchant didn't yield anything. All my cities were having a WLTED, so it only added 20 more turns.
Conquering several cities in a row didn't give the bonuses either. Producing great works once in a permanent WLTED didn't do anything other that increase the length of it. I had 90 turns of WLTED in Beijing.
I see the appeal to have an amazing early eras and then keep growing to capitalize on it, but the description is misleading. I'd prefer if it gives the bonuses every time, and decays stronger with the Dinasty thing.
This is definitely not the case in my game, yields were applied just fine even when my WLTKD in each city was upwards 100 turns.
tu_79
Deity
I'll try with a savegame to prove it.
EDIT. Well, I produced a Great Work of Writing and bonus is applied to every city, so it seems to be working well, even in those permanent WLTED cities.
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JungleBucks
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2015
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- 187
Reporting my experience with New China. I gotta say I really enjoy their new UA. It was interesting having to risk losing technological advantages/wonder rushing for the sake of the bonuses, and if not for the fact that my UA ruined my happiness and production early on, I'd say it's practically perfect. It's dangerously strong (with an emphasis on the word dangerous), and I don't think that necessarily needs to be changed.
Even with the limitations however, I still rushed wonders hard due to the early culture bonuses helping with snowballs. I didn't finish the game however, as I realized far too late that I was getting graphical issues (I don't think the EUI was properly set for my game) and I couldn't theme anything I owned.
Even with the limitations however, I still rushed wonders hard due to the early culture bonuses helping with snowballs. I didn't finish the game however, as I realized far too late that I was getting graphical issues (I don't think the EUI was properly set for my game) and I couldn't theme anything I owned.
Attachments
They're going to get a few minor nerfs, namely de-linking the culture and food bonus from things not noted in the UA, and I'm going to shorten the WLtED duration a little. Otherwise theyre in a good spot.
Are artifacts included in this still? I found the bonus actually biggest in the late game and dig sites were a big factor.
Yeah this was pretty crazy actually. The only place where era transition didn't completely wipe the entire bonus as well.
Speaking of wiping out the entire bonus, I'm still not sold on the current era-transition drops, the bonus clearly needs to drop off, but I'm not sure the flat drops currently in the game really promotes healthy gameplay.
You mostly go around feeling punished for having to do stuff half way thought the era, promoting saving all settling and GPs to consume right after the era transition, and if you manage to stack enough settling/GWs in one era, there is absolutely no punishment for jamming all the rest in there.
It all just feels like a really strange interacting, and it would be lovely if era transition could drop maybe half the stacks rounded up instead of a set number.
I actually always had some left over each era, pretty easy if you go Authority-Aesthetics, but by Atomic I suddenly had bonuses of +15 per city, my OP start never stopped being OP.
Granted I did take every WLTED bonus bar missing out on Halicarnassus, took Mastery and set every city to GP focus as China can feed insand amounts of specialists - I've had 0 unhappiness but that from specialists since the middle game.
Could also be insanely OP in the late game if you go Imperialism-Authority and start capturing cities like crazy.
Granted I did take every WLTED bonus bar missing out on Halicarnassus, took Mastery and set every city to GP focus as China can feed insand amounts of specialists - I've had 0 unhappiness but that from specialists since the middle game.
Could also be insanely OP in the late game if you go Imperialism-Authority and start capturing cities like crazy.
This depends heavily on mapsize I suppose.
I feel like China is still kind of overpowered. Even if it the UA did absolutely nothing past Industrial I think it would be a worthy civ, that second point of early culture is just disgusting. Generally I'm getting a really fast settler and trying to reach Classical with 6th or 7th tech, and time more settlers to plant right after more cities get planted. If you delay the medieval era as long as possible (I even would consider half way researching a few techs) you get a long period of glorious development.
You can also trigger the bonus by liberating or razing cities.
You can also trigger the bonus by liberating or razing cities.
It encourages a very unique style of gameplay to achieve that. Which is kind of the goal of a UA, no? I don't know what else I would do to change China, except perhaps nerfing the paper maker and taking away artifact bonuses.
Still believe that cutting the bonus in half every era instead of reducing it by a flat amount would be better, feels like it would slow down crazed out of control snowballs without overpunishing games that aren't going too well. As she is now Wu is the queen of snowballs
ElliotS
Warmonger
Possible problem is that would force even more focus onto front-loading eras.
I've yet to play China post-change though, so I can't say more.
I'd drop the artifact bonus. On a big empire you get so much from them, more than Egypt would.
It is very unique and it definently takes some time to learn how to handle it well
Txurce
Deity
This is a simple, neat solution.
I don't think so actually. The losses would be way bigger, considering you lose half of your investment, it would probably also encourage settling cities when only a tech or two away from the next era, as the earlier you get the culture/food the better, and even if you haven't gone all out for this particular era you'd still only be giving away on average half the bonus instead of all of it once you switch era. It would also deal with those massive influxes of artifacts, I mean when I hit modern era in my last China game I had a trait-bonus of +60 in my capital (and most other cities) this due to my GP-production kicking into gear around that time, finishing a lot of the mid-game wonders that gave great artist/writers, digging up a massive amount of artifacts, and a war where I conquered and liberated a few cities right at the beginning of the era. Anyways the era transition reduction of 8, I think, did close to nothing to affect my output which stayed around the same level for the rest of the game.
That's just the thing, if you actually get the china machine going, and outpace the era transition reductions, you're going to just keep winning. There isn't a good static number that can deal with the Chinese UA, because the Chinese UA itself depends on a ton of factors. A percentage reduction however would at least slow the snowball down, while at the same time not completely cripple a China that's doing a bit poorly (something that an increase on the static reduction would do).
tu_79
Deity
I m with Funak in this. A reduction in the form of a percentage is the best to keep it reasonable. 50% might be too much, but it easier to modify later.
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