Chinas Starting Techs

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Yeosol, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. Yeosol

    Yeosol monarch

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    Minning and Agriculture.
    Is it just me or is this the best opening tech combination?
    And how come China is the only civ to have it?

    For some reason starts with China just play out so well. My captial just explodes with growth and production. (Worker first build obviously)
    As well it gives you lots of options for first tech. BW, AH, Fishing, Hunting can all be good. You can really do anything because you already have the worker techs down.

    Starting Techs are something people don't talk about much but I find they can make a big difference. Some combinations are just so brutal (Japan without costal start :cry:).

    Anyone ever put much worth into starting techs when picking a civ?
     
  2. Woodreaux

    Woodreaux Prince

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    Yeah, if I'm planning to scoop up an early religion, I usually go for somebody who starts with Mysticism. My man, Monty, comes to mind.
     
  3. Joecoolyo

    Joecoolyo 99% Lightspeed

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    Why do you think China is one of the best civs ;)
     
  4. torchic21594

    torchic21594 Chieftain

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    I enjoy using Civs that start with the wheel. This way my worker, which I usually build first, always has something to do...
     
  5. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    But if all he has to do is build roads, it won't have anything to do that will be useful for the key first thousand years. You need farms, pastures, mines...
     
  6. torchic21594

    torchic21594 Chieftain

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    True, but at least when I play, if I don't have the wheel, the starting techs that I do have never seem to be useful. :rolleyes:
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    They really are 2 of the best starting techs, compensated by average leader traits and a not-so-spectacular UU/UB combo (both are useful, neither spectacular).
     
  8. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

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    100,000,000,000,000 % best starting techs - but overall they are mediocre civilization.
     
  9. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Has anyone made a compiliation of the starting tech combos and the number of civs that have each combination?

    I'm a fan of the Agriculture and Mining combo myself. Although Agriculture and The Wheel might net you more beakers at the start (and it's not a bad combo, because I can still get Mining and Bronze Working out with my first worker in good time)...well, I thought I had a good point to make, but I really don't.

    The other starting technology I like is hunting, because of the scout that can grab an extra goody hut or two (and thus maybe getting a third starting tech, if I could be so lucky), and I'm closer to Archery in case I don't have copper or horses. That seems to happen to me half the time; I always want to pull off an ax rush, but if there isn't metal within 10 tiles of your capital, then you are just out of luck.
     
  10. Fei Kelei

    Fei Kelei Pleased

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  11. Cashew

    Cashew Prince

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    They're not bad, but the pro trait on both leaders leaves much to be desired for.
     
  12. Guardian_PL

    Guardian_PL Emperor

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    It's a decent combination. I still like Mehmed starting techs more - tbh, it doesn't really matter, since I can tech Mining while building first worker, and I won't be using whip immediately or chop forests - food comes first.
     
  13. Monsterzuma

    Monsterzuma the sly one

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    It's the royal flush of the starting techs. Combine it with Mao's Expansive and it's boost to production of the initial worker and you've a major set of synergetic advantages during the first few thousand years of the game. Expansive's health bonus means indiscrete chopping won't slow you in any way. You can allow youself a lot of liberties in rush situations as Mao for these reasons.

    As for Qin Shi Huang; hardly any time will be wasted developing worker techs. Masonry can be researched at turn 1. Expect record build dates of the early game Stone wonders.
     
  14. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    Mao used to be a lot better before being made protective :(
     
  15. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Retired Moderator

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    The UU is awesome, but I'd agree that the leaders aren't great, and the units are (in my opinion) uglier than a lot of other civs, so I rarely play them.
     
  16. Molybdeus

    Molybdeus Prince

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    It's a bit sad how far Qin has dropped since Vanilla as well. Financial/Industrious with the best two starting techs was awesome. Unfortunately it encouraged a lot of bad habits in my play, and I had to dump Qin in order to move up from Noble.

    To be fair, though, China does have good uniques to help pad the damage from the loss of good traits. I would still rather play Zara or Pericles when headed for a cultural victory, but China makes a good show of it.
     
  17. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Actually I disagree with this. The best starting techs are Agriculture and Hunting. This way, for MANY starts, you can research Animal Husbandry at a maximum discount (AH resources are common and horses are great for the early game) and then research Archery immediately after if necessary for barbarian defense. This is why I like starting out as Persia. If you've got a coastal capital, then you can just research fishing before AH and then archery after AH if necessary.
     
  18. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Starting tech combos really vary, and there are some excellent combos, of which you mentioned one. I view starting techs as three abilities

    1) Food (agriculture, fishing, hunting) in order of preference
    2) Military, or 1 turn away from something (Mining, Hunting, agriculture) in order of preference
    3) Economy (fishing, wheel, mining, mysticism, hunting)

    Special notes to Mysticism for founding one of the two early religions.

    What I want is 2 food techs ASAP, thus those starting with fishing and agriculture are my preference, which happen to be the Americans (USA or Native) and Dutch.

    Now, there are some other extremely profitable nations where starting techs work very well together

    1) Sitting Bull. Starts fishing/agriculture thus you can immediately tech mining/Bronze Working and know you have the UU within 2 techs. Great protecion (No barb Chariots) and good for VERY early rushes.

    2) Isabella: Fishing and Mysticism means she has a great chance to nab an early religion by working seafood or a lake tile very early.

    3) Stalin. The ONLY Agressive leader that starts with mining! Can produce a very Brutal and VERY early AXE rush.

    3) Wheel and either agriculture/fishing. You can tech Pottery right out of the door (Tokugawa, the French, Hammurabi, Egypt, The Ottomans, Gilgamesh, ). If you got floodplains it may be best to start early cottages for a super economy. Interesting there is no financial leader with this combo :sad:

    4) Charlemagne: The only protective leader that start with hunting, thus you can get promoted archers after researching the first tech.

    5) The Celtic leaders start with Mysticism and are both charismatic, so that's first crack at Stonehenge and free monuments per city.
     
  19. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    Egypt researching pottery before animal husbandry is a crime against civmanity.
     
  20. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Not really. Given floodplains, hills and ne free grassland/plains tiles means early Pottery.
     

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