Christian Peacemaker Team member Tom Fox found tortured to death in Iraq.

[CaptainF]

I found this to be very distressing. I didn't know about this man before he died, but I heard this on the radio a few days ago and since looking into his life and beliefs I have found him to be a hero of sorts.

This man went, unarmed, to Iraq to help out the ordinary people of this downtrodden country. He was as disciplined to enact peace as a soldier is to make war. He believed that this war was unjust and bad for america, and he acted on his beliefs. And for that he was kidnapped, tortured and killed.

Thats what gets me the most. People of such high character are given the short end of the stick all too often. What gets me even more is the callous comments Rush Limbaugh made about his kidnapping back in December '05:

“I’m telling you folks, there’s a part of me that likes this.
I like any time a bunch of leftist feel-good hand-wringers are shown reality."

I sure hope this is not the majority opinion.

This whole incident and looking into it just really got me thinking on strict pacifism and its viability. It also made me wonder what people think of this man. Third, it also made me ponder about how diverse people's interpretations of Christianity are, considering that this man saw his faith through pacifism, where as other christians are not so quick to ditch the rifle.

Feel free to express your thoughts on this man, his beliefs, whatever pertains to this.

More info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Fox_%28activist%29

Be sure to check out the external links.

 

[Pyrite]

Well, I think the man is admirable, and most likely knew the risks before he did this, and that is exactly what makes him admirable. Helping others through adversity is heroic is it not?

Sure maybe he was "shown reality." But, maybe he knew what could happen and chose to act anyway. Respect.

 

[The Yankee]

No, I believe Limbaugh is referring to Democrats and liberals in the US that disagree with the course of action, that this "reality" shown should make them support the current policies more.

But aside from that, it is quite sad that things like this continue to happen. Especially since these are usually noncombatants.

 

[Aramazd]

“I’m telling you folks, there’s a part of me that likes this.
I like any time a bunch of leftist feel-good hand-wringers are shown reality."

It's not my opinion.

This is really to bad. I hope that this will not happen again.

 

[CaptainF]

No, I believe Limbaugh is referring to Democrats and liberals in the US that disagree with the course of action, that this "reality" shown should make them support the current policies more.

But aside from that, it is quite sad that things like this continue to happen. Especially since these are usually noncombatants.

Nope. That quote was not taken out of context.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200511300010

That is the whole of Limbaugh's broadcast. He specifically refers to the Peacemaker team members themselves.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

US State Department travel warning:

The Department of State continues to strongly warn U.S. citizens against travel to Iraq, which remains very dangerous. Remnants of the former Ba’ath regime, transnational terrorists, criminal elements and numerous insurgent groups remain active...These attacks have resulted in deaths and injuries of American citizens, including those doing humanitarian work. In addition, there have been planned and random killings, as well as extortions and kidnappings. U.S. citizens have been kidnapped and several were subsequently murdered by terrorists in Iraq. U.S. citizens and other foreigners continue to be targeted by insurgent groups and opportunistic criminals for kidnapping and murder.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I found this to be very distressing. I didn't know about this man before he died, but I heard this on the radio a few days ago and since looking into his life and beliefs I have found him to be a hero of sorts.

This man went, unarmed, to Iraq to help out the ordinary people of this downtrodden country. He was as disciplined to enact peace as a soldier is to make war. He believed that this war was unjust and bad for america, and he acted on his beliefs. And for that he was kidnapped, tortured and killed.

Thats what gets me the most. People of such high character are given the short end of the stick all too often. What gets me even more is the callous comments Rush Limbaugh made about his kidnapping back in December '05:

“I’m telling you folks, there’s a part of me that likes this.
I like any time a bunch of leftist feel-good hand-wringers are shown reality."

I sure hope this is not the majority opinion.

This whole incident and looking into it just really got me thinking on strict pacifism and its viability. It also made me wonder what people think of this man. Third, it also made me ponder about how diverse people's interpretations of Christianity are, considering that this man saw his faith through pacifism, where as other christians are not so quick to ditch the rifle.

Feel free to express your thoughts on this man, his beliefs, whatever pertains to this.

More info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Fox_%28activist%29

Be sure to check out the external links.

Rush is not exactly the bearer of virtue, considering his own brush with drug addiction, so I would not take his words with any degree of "gospel."

My own opinion is that this is what missionaries get themselves into, and they probably know it. He probably knew well the risks he was taking by going to Iraq, and got exactly what would be expected from anyone else taking the same risks. It's unfortunate, but no more so than anyone else foolhardy enough to visit that troubled region, regardless of the reason for the visit.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I found this to be very distressing. I didn't know about this man before he died, but I heard this on the radio a few days ago and since looking into his life and beliefs I have found him to be a hero of sorts.

This man went, unarmed, to Iraq to help out the ordinary people of this downtrodden country. He was as disciplined to enact peace as a soldier is to make war. He believed that this war was unjust and bad for america, and he acted on his beliefs. And for that he was kidnapped, tortured and killed

A hero, or a fool of sorts? I feel bad for the man and his family, but honestly, what else did he expect to happen? He's like that guy who hung out with bears until they finally killed him. The ultimate outcome was never in doubt.

 

[Secular]

The man was brave, and caring; a true altruist. However, forgive me if i'm being callous, but he was also naive to very deffinate fault.

In a perfect universe one man's peacable message would be heard.. this isn't that universe. While i find his passing tragic, walking into a warzone that is exceptionally hostile to Americans with nothing but a smile doesn't seem like a great idea from the spectator stands.

 

[CaptainF]

A hero, or a fool of sorts? I feel bad for the man and his family, but honestly, what else did he expect to happen? He's like that guy who hung out with bears until they finally killed him. The ultimate outcome was never in doubt.

I disagree. Timothy Treadwell was a cooky fellow who hung out with bears to make them his pets. Tom Fox went to Iraq to help people out and to act on his faith. He also signed a statement of conviction in which he anticipated the risks:

http://www.cpt.org/iraq/response/iraq_team_statement_of_conviction.htm

The fact that he was aware of the risks, yet still went there as a representative of peace, yes that is heroic.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

He must have had a messiah complex.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

The fact that he was aware of the risks, yet still went there, yes that is heroic.

I dont know, we tend to be too eager to bestow hero status on people, these days. Just because bad things happen to people, doesnt mean theyre heros. Sometimes theyre just fools that were killed by their own foolishness. Theres a fine line between heroism and foolishness.

 

[CaptainF]

The man was brave, and caring; a true altruist. However, forgive me if i'm being callous, but he was also naive to very deffinate fault.

In a perfect universe one man's peacable message would be heard.. this isn't that universe. While i find his passing tragic, walking into a warzone that is exceptionally hostile to Americans with nothing but a smile doesn't seem like a great idea from the spectator stands.

Yes, from a standpoint of wanting to preserve your life and save yourself, that is a valid statement.

But this man made the ultimate statement. I for one am not a "man of peace". However, from the standpoint of wanting to stand up for ones beliefs, that is a brave thing to do.

 

[Hundegesicht]

A hero, or a fool of sorts? I feel bad for the man and his family, but honestly, what else did he expect to happen? He's like that guy who hung out with bears until they finally killed him. The ultimate outcome was never in doubt.

Maybe. But maybe if you could compare the cost of his death with the amount of good he did during his time as a missionary in Iraq, you'd understand that, at least from his perspective, it was worth the price? I admire people such as him that are willing to sacrifice their own safety and even lives to try and make the world a better place. I don't want to see him made a martyr, but I do think through his patience, love of peace, and devotion to his cause he's an amazing example of true heroism.

 

[CaptainF]

I dont know, we tend to be too eager to bestow hero status on people, these days. Just because bad things happen to people, doesnt mean theyre heros. Sometimes theyre just fools that were killed by their own foolishness. Theres a fine line between heroism and foolishness.

To me it depends on what they died doing.

We have the Darwin Awards for morons who kill themselves over a dollars worth of soda (digressing, but that happens to be one of my favorite ones! )

We save our hero titles for those that die doing valiant things, like this man.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Yeah most of those "leftist feel-good hand-wringers" have already left Iraq saddly. With the withdrawel of the UN, most of the internaional aid agencies followed suite.

iam really amazed there are still groups of volunteers in Iraq, contributing to the rebuilding.

EDIT: As for Rush, Its a strange reaction to killing of people trying to help in Iraq.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

The fact that he was aware of the risks, yet still went there as a representative of peace, yes that is heroic.

You claim he is heroic, which is your right. You asked our opinion, so I'll tell you that I see him as a naive fool.

If you don't know the stove is hot and touch it and burn yourself, then I feel sorry for you. If I tell you the stove is hot and you touch it anyway and burn yourself then don't ask for sympathy.

Is the sheep preaching pacifism in the wolf's den a hero or simply a self-made victim waiting to happen?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

In a way, its a sort of arrogance. "Oh sure, those people have been at each others throats for years now. Theres a war going on. Hundreds of thousands have been killed. But look out, here comes me. Im above all of that. I'll be able to turn things around there." If the millions of people of Iraq cant turn things around, what makes him so special? Why should he be able to bring about peace?

Again, dont get me wrong, I feel bad for the man, and wish he was back home safe and sound instead. His horrible end was avoidable, like the rest of the mess in Iraq.

 

[CaptainF]

You claim he is heroic, which is your right. You asked our opinion, so I'll tell you that I see him as a naive fool.

If you don't know the stove is hot and touch it and burn yourself, then I feel sorry for you. If I tell you the stove is hot and you touch it anyway and burn yourself then don't ask for sympathy.

Is the sheep preaching pacifism in the wolf's den a hero or simply a self-made victim waiting to happen?

Then why is a soldier considered a greater hero than someone like this? He runs into circumstances which will more than likely get him killed, yet he is honored by just about everyone.

Yet when someone goes over there as a pacifist, he is left in the dust.

I fail to see the logic in this.

 

[Secular]

Yes, from a standpoint of wanting to preserve your life and save yourself, that is a valid statement.

But this man made the ultimate statement. I for one am not a "man of peace". However, from the standpoint of wanting to stand up for ones beliefs, that is a brave thing to do.

Being brave and being stupid are not mutually exclusive. When budhists in vietnam lit themselves on fire it showed they were passificts, it proved they were brave and cared strongly about what believed in.. it accomplished nothing.

Jumping on a grenade to protect the people around you is brave.. jumping on it when your all alone is something else.