CIA Spying on Congress?

[Leoreth]

Cities are a sign of decadence.

For some reason I read that as citations at first.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ya know, now that firearms were brought up, I bet she has bodyguards with guns. It's so cool how powerful people who are opposed to guns are only opposed to them in the hands of folks not there to do their bidding.

Careful there, you may get derisively labeled as a populist with thoughts along those lines. Respect your betters.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Kucinich is the outlier that proves the rule.

I think bhsup doesn't like Feinstein because she supports restrictions on firearms.

But it is evil to represent the majority of your constituents in the US if it goes against the Republican Party loyalty oath.

 

[Commodore]

You do realize that the CIA is specifically prohibited from spying on Americans in the US. Right?

Not just the CIA, but any intelligence organization. And it's not just inside the US either. We were not allowed to collect against any US person, and if we happened to do it accidently (and it did happen sometimes) we had to dispose of the information within 90 days or face jail time.

 

[peter grimes]

Ya know, now that firearms were brought up, I bet she has bodyguards with guns. It's so cool how powerful people who are opposed to guns are only opposed to them in the hands of folks not there to do their bidding.

Oh please, this is such a lame argument. You can do better.

You know and I know that the point of gun legislation isn't to prevent everyone everywhere from having guns, it's to keep deadly weapons out of the hands of people who aren't properly trained or responsible in their use.

 

[Farm Boy]

Oh please, this is such a lame argument. You can do better.

You know and I know that the point of gun legislation isn't to prevent everyone everywhere from having guns, it's to keep deadly weapons out of the hands of people who aren't properly trained or responsible in their use.

And if his argument is lame, the counterpoints remain anything but egalitarian and deeply rooted in cynicism about the ability of our countrymen and citizens.

 

[Antilogic]

This looks like a fairly bizarre case where the CIA was both removing and altering documents on computers they provided to the Senate staffers overseeing the committee, which the Senate staffers have responded to by taking copies of the data offsite.

The chain of command is clear here--the Senate oversight committee should have access to the documents without interference.

Feinstein is painfully moderate and a big bag of smarmy smarm sauce. I don't care what you say about her, just please don't credit any of it with leftedness.

If you guys think Feinstein is a moderate and no raging leftist, your political compass views are so out of whack that I cannot help you.

The word "raging" is pretty loaded, especially for a party that has abandoned a lot of economic-left positions except for a half-hearted attempt every couple years to raise the minimum wage. Diane Feinstein is not Henry Wallace or George McGovern.

I made a chart not long ago to help illustrate it for folks who had trouble.

Here is another example with CFC folk...

I really want to see an updated list.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Not just the CIA, but any intelligence organization. And it's not just inside the US either. We were not allowed to collect against any US person, and if we happened to do it accidently (and it did happen sometimes) we had to dispose of the information within 90 days or face jail time.

You mean it deliberately occurs, and it has been since October 2001?

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

The NSA, as part of a program secretly authorized by President Bush on 4 October 2001, implemented a bulk collection program of domestic telephone, internet and email records. A furore erupted in 2006 when USA Today reported that the NSA had "been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth" and was "using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity." Until now, there has been no indication that the Obama administration implemented a similar program.

These recent events reflect how profoundly the NSA's mission has transformed from an agency exclusively devoted to foreign intelligence gathering, into one that focuses increasingly on domestic communications. A 30-year employee of the NSA, William Binney, resigned from the agency shortly after 9/11 in protest at the agency's focus on domestic activities.

Supposedly throwing it all away 90 days later isn't any sort of safeguard at all.

 

[Commodore]

You mean it deliberately occurs, and it has been since October 2001?



Supposedly throwing it all away 90 days later isn't any sort of safeguard at all.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend or justify the abuses the intelligence community commits. In fact I try to bring to light all of the regulations that are supposed to be in place that nobody seems to be aware of, thus allowing such abuses take place.

For example when I say US persons are not to be collected against, most people have no idea that "US person" doesn't just mean citizens. A US person is defined as anyone who has a legal right to live or work within the US or a US business entity.

And when I refer to accidental collection against US persons I am referring to my personal operations while I was military intelligence. I fully acknowledge that my colleagues in the military and other intelligence agencies deliberately violated the laws governing intelligence collection.

 

[Tahuti]

For some reason I read that as citations at first.

It is a thought experiment, yes.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Diane is pro-gun control?

Years ago I specifically shopped for and bought an AK and a big fat drum magazine for it just because I had always remembered that famous nationally televised Kalashnikov(tm) commercial.

 

[bhsup]

From what I read, it was just an accusation by her with nothing to substantiate it. Sounds like lefty politics trying to discredit the CIA.

And four months later, it seems Obama agrees with me since his Justice Dept found no "sufficient" evidence (translation: Feinstein is a kook) to warrant doing a damned thing.


Justice declines to pursue allegations that CIA monitored Senate Intel staff

Remember folks, this is the lady who thinks integrity means ensuring nobody but her own bodyguards should get to have guns. Is it really surprising she'd make up accusations to try to discredit the CIA?

 

[Formaldehyde]

You are between a rock and a hard place. If you damn Feinstein with even more straw men and misrepresentations of the facts, you apparently must praise Obama for "agreeing" with you.

 

[dutchfire]

And four months later, it seems Obama agrees with me since his Justice Dept found no "sufficient" evidence (translation: Feinstein is a kook) to warrant doing a damned thing.


Justice declines to pursue allegations that CIA monitored Senate Intel staff

Remember folks, this is the lady who thinks integrity means ensuring nobody but her own bodyguards should get to have guns. Is it really surprising she'd make up accusations to try to discredit the CIA?

Obama adminstration says that Obama administration did not do bad things. More at eleven.

 

[bhsup]

I'll give him praise when he actually does good things. I have no problem with that.

Obama adminstration says that Obama administration did not do bad things. More at eleven.

You made me giggle

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'll give him praise when he actually does good things. I have no problem with that.

"Good things" like not doing any of the things which you alleged he did? That nothing which was done by someone other than Obama seems to "agree" with your gross misrepresentation of what really occurred?

Supposed lack of evidence doesn't mean the person making the allegations was a "kook". Nor does it mean that she tried to "make up accusations to try to discredit the CIA", which needs no help whatsoever in that particular regard.

 

[bhsup]

All I said was his Justice Dept chose not to pursue this. It is his Justice Dept. The Justice Dept is in the executive branch. He is the head of the executive branch. So Obama is not pursuing this. I am giving him props for this. He did a good thing. Man, I can't even give the guy kudos without catching flak from the left.

 

[Camikaze]

All I said was his Justice Dept chose not to pursue this. It is his Justice Dept. The Justice Dept is in the executive branch. He is the head of the executive branch. So Obama is not pursuing this. I am giving him props for this. He did a good thing. Man, I can't even give the guy kudos without catching flak from the left.

You're giving him kudos for the wrong things, I think. I don't really understand what's good about the executive branch deciding not to investigate whether the executive branch impinged on the separation of powers? NSA/CIA related issues aren't things that the left is going to congratulate Obama on.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Many people act like those who hold jobs in the executive department are all members of the president's political party, and are perhaps even close friends of his. But nothing could be further from the truth. Only a handful of the very top executives are appointed by the party which holds the presidency at the time. Obama wouldn't even know who all but a handful of those were were until long after they accepted the appointments, and their names then came up in a matter that was actually brought to his attention. The rest are career bureaucrats who have likely been there since they graduated from college. And they will probably remain there until the retire on their fat government pensions.

A Republican could very well have been assigned to investigate this matter. And the odds of him even knowing Obama personally are somewhere between slim and none. The buck stopped somewhere else far below the president.

 

[bhsup]

I don't think Obama would be so stupid as to actually interfere with a Justice Dept investigation. Yes, I'll give him credit since it -is- in his administration, but the Justice Dept is fairly independent nonetheless.

Basically, Feinstein made up a story to try to discredit the CIA for some reason.