City Resource Stockpiling mod

[TheLadiesOgre]

All very good questions and ones that we are working through... one step at a time. Doing resource stockpiling is changing a huge subsystem of the game...

Speaking of questions... should you only be able to stockpile resources if you are working that tile or stockpile them all the time regardless of if you are working that tile?

I already have it in the code that you stockpile as long as you have an improvement on the tile. But should you have to work that tile to get the stockpile?

I agree with GE, that you should get more if you work the tile, that isn't necessarily to say that you shouldn't get anything for having the improved tile in the cities FC. Which is another thing, can you get resources added to the stockpile if the resource isn't in the FC of any city you control?

As far as the Resource Trading is concerned, I personally think it should be handled like gold. Have the resources set up the same way that they are now, but under each resource have two indented lines one for a one-time trade of X units and one for an ongoing trade of X per turn

 

[God-Emperor]

There are any number of possible schemes for this. I suggest something like:

An improved resource outside of any city's BFC provides exactly 1 per turn with no adjustments for improvement type (so a fort is just as good as a farm/mine/plantation/etc.). That is enough to give the happy/healthy/whatever bonus from just having the resource to at least 1 city (I would assume it would eventually start to spread as the resource stockpile builds up and then spreads via the trade route diffusion).

Inside the BFC but not worked then gives 2 per turn since it is should probably be more than the first category.

Worked gives an amount that is defined for the improvement, but at least 2 and probably usually 3 or more. The amount per turn can increase with techs, for example perhaps all worked improvements produce +1/turn with Machinery so that your basic copper mine that was producing 3 per turn now produces 4 per turn. Biology could increase the output of Farms and Plantations but not things like Mines or Windmills. All this could be done via tags in the improvement infos something like the TechYieldChanges, perhaps a TechBonusRateChanges, to go with a singe iBonusRate that sets the base resource production rate for an improvement when it is worked.

You could apply the tech's boosts to the unworked versions, or add a boolean tag that says whether or not the increase applies when they are not worked (for maximum versatility). Presumably a fort would never increase its output, so that would give the AI a reason to not build forts on every resource that is not inside a city BFC.

There is also the issue of where resources go as they are produced, especially those produced outside of any city's BFC. It could be added to the nearest city's stockpile, or the capital's, or perhaps the largest city that doesn't currently have one in its stockpile (but does have a building that is a prereq for stockpiling that resource) then defaulting to one of the other 2 possibilities if they all have one already. I imagine the distribution of resources is something that has already been considered. A player wants to have each of the resources available in as many cities as possible but free-flowing resources is not very realistic, especially in the early eras (it would stink to loose a city due to not being able to build an adequate defender when a strong enemy is approaching due to not having any copper, or whatever, when some other city has dozens of units of copper stockpiled - although this might actually be realistic).

 

[TheLopez]

... BFC? lol I've been out of the loop for too long. Someone should come up with an acronym thread lol

 

[TheLopez]

There are any number of possible schemes for this. I suggest something like:

An improved resource outside of any city's BFC provides exactly 1 per turn with no adjustments for improvement type (so a fort is just as good as a farm/mine/plantation/etc.). That is enough to give the happy/healthy/whatever bonus from just having the resource to at least 1 city (I would assume it would eventually start to spread as the resource stockpile builds up and then spreads via the trade route diffusion).

Inside the BFC but not worked then gives 2 per turn since it is should probably be more than the first category.

Worked gives an amount that is defined for the improvement, but at least 2 and probably usually 3 or more. The amount per turn can increase with techs, for example perhaps all worked improvements produce +1/turn with Machinery so that your basic copper mine that was producing 3 per turn now produces 4 per turn. Biology could increase the output of Farms and Plantations but not things like Mines or Windmills. All this could be done via tags in the improvement infos something like the TechYieldChanges, perhaps a TechBonusRateChanges, to go with a singe iBonusRate that sets the base resource production rate for an improvement when it is worked.

You could apply the tech's boosts to the unworked versions, or add a boolean tag that says whether or not the increase applies when they are not worked (for maximum versatility). Presumably a fort would never increase its output, so that would give the AI a reason to not build forts on every resource that is not inside a city BFC.

There is also the issue of where resources go as they are produced, especially those produced outside of any city's BFC. It could be added to the nearest city's stockpile, or the capital's, or perhaps the largest city that doesn't currently have one in its stockpile (but does have a building that is a prereq for stockpiling that resource) then defaulting to one of the other 2 possibilities if they all have one already. I imagine the distribution of resources is something that has already been considered. A player wants to have each of the resources available in as many cities as possible but free-flowing resources is not very realistic, especially in the early eras (it would stink to loose a city due to not being able to build an adequate defender when a strong enemy is approaching due to not having any copper, or whatever, when some other city has dozens of units of copper stockpiled - although this might actually be realistic).

So how about this...

If the boni (yep, I actually remember that term) is connected but not worked you get +1, if it is being worked and connected +2, if it is connect and being worked and improved with the right improvement then you get +3...

 

[TheLadiesOgre]

... and then you factor in any Building/Improvement/Tech modifiers?

 

[TheLopez]

... and then you factor in any Building/Improvement/Tech modifiers?

Yep, when I get around to adding those tags ... I should have a new version to you soon BTW

 

[TheLadiesOgre]

A thought occured to me, should there be a starting allowance of basic resources in the stockpile for each player at the start of the game? I'm not thinking anything like Copper or Iron, more like X Generic_Food_Resource, X Hide, X Lumber, X Stone, stuff that could have feasibly been gathered by the "Dawn of Man" settlers that formed your capital. I'm thinking this because if there are new resource requirements for buildings/units how will you build/train anything without some start up?

 

[TheLopez]

A thought occured to me, should there be a starting allowance of basic resources in the stockpile for each player at the start of the game? I'm not thinking anything like Copper or Iron, more like X Generic_Food_Resource, X Hide, X Lumber, X Stone, stuff that could have feasibly been gathered by the "Dawn of Man" settlers that formed your capital. I'm thinking this because if there are new resource requirements for buildings/units how will you build/train anything without some start up?

Huh, interesting point, but is that the job of this mod or the job of the people using this mod?

 

[TheLadiesOgre]

might be an idea to at least include the framework, like a tag in CivilizationInfo or a Global Define or something, that way individual modders could set values based on their own judgement for scenarios or full-blown mods...

 

[TheLopez]

might be an idea to at least include the framework, like a tag in CivilizationInfo or a Global Define or something, that way individual modders could set values based on their own judgement for scenarios or full-blown mods...

Like an initial stockpile structure in civilization info structure?

 

[TheLadiesOgre]

yeah, that way each Civ could be "flavored" with stockpile

 

[TheLopez]

yeah, that way each Civ could be "flavored" with stockpile

I'll add it to the to do list.

God-Emperor/TheLadiesOgre, heres an idea for you... how about a project that enables a world wide commodities exchange screen for all civilizations that have reached the industrial era? There would be two sides to this commodities exchange
1) the legit side
2) the black market

What do you guys think?

This would be out of scope for my mod but it is one of the things that could be built using this mod

 

[TheLadiesOgre]

Wow, that is an idea with a lot of potential, exchanging commodities with other civs for fun and profit, NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION against the will of the pansy UN!!!

So, Montezuma, Saladin, what will you two give humble England for Weapons Grade Plutonium?

 

[TheLopez]

Wow, that is an idea with a lot of potential, exchanging commodities with other civs for fun and profit, NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION against the will of the pansy UN!!!

So, Montezuma, Saladin, what will you two give humble England for Weapons Grade Plutonium?

That's why they pay me the big bucks... oh wait... I don't get paid to do all of this work... or do I

 

[CellKu]

I'll add it to the to do list.

God-Emperor/TheLadiesOgre, heres an idea for you... how about a project that enables a world wide commodities exchange screen for all civilizations that have reached the industrial era? There would be two sides to this commodities exchange
1) the legit side
2) the black market

What do you guys think?

This would be out of scope for my mod but it is one of the things that could be built using this mod

That is an awesome idea! It would give additional depth to the game. However, would you be able to ensure that the AI is making good use of that?

Btw, when does the black market become important (except for the proliferation thing)? When there is an embargo (haven't seen many so far)? Or when you trade with someone's worst enemy, so you don't get that specific penalty?

 

[LuKo]

Like an initial stockpile structure in civilization info structure?

And some more stockpiles with some technologies. Like with Iron Working you get some stockpiles of iron in every city (fairy small) and in every new city (because iron is quite common and small amount for the beginning you can get with rather small effort).

 

[TheLadiesOgre]

And some more stockpiles with some technologies. Like with Iron Working you get some stockpiles of iron in every city (fairy small) and in every new city (because iron is quite common and small amount for the beginning you can get with rather small effort).

I have to disagree, otherwise if you start getting Iron when you get Iron Working, what is the point in mining it? Fairly small or not, if you get it early enough it may give you that advantage you need to capture your neighbor's capital that just so happens to have been placed right on a tile of iron.

Think about it, how would you feel if you lost the game because the AI teched IW 10 turns before you and whipped as many Swordsman as they could before stomping you with them so they could have the Iron plot your capital was on (which you just noticed the turn before you lost)?

There is also the possibility that human players would exploit this and bee-line IW (if they hadn't planned to already) just for the guaranteed Iron.

 

[TheLopez]

I have to disagree, otherwise if you start getting Iron when you get Iron Working, what is the point in mining it? Fairly small or not, if you get it early enough it may give you that advantage you need to capture your neighbor's capital that just so happens to have been placed right on a tile of iron.

Think about it, how would you feel if you lost the game because the AI teched IW 10 turns before you and whipped as many Swordsman as they could before stomping you with them so they could have the Iron plot your capital was on (which you just noticed the turn before you lost)?

There is also the possibility that human players would exploit this and bee-line IW (if they hadn't planned to already) just for the guaranteed Iron.

I agree with TheLadiesOgre... tech shouldn't immediately give you a boost per turn in stockpiling. A much cleaner idea would be something that TheLadiesOgre is working on...

That is an awesome idea! It would give additional depth to the game. However, would you be able to ensure that the AI is making good use of that?

Dunno, isn't that always the question?

Btw, when does the black market become important (except for the proliferation thing)? When there is an embargo (haven't seen many so far)? Or when you trade with someone's worst enemy, so you don't get that specific penalty?

Again, dunno. I just came up with the idea yesterday and haven't had time to flesh it out yet.

 

[LuKo]

I agree with TheLadiesOgre... tech shouldn't immediately give you a boost per turn in stockpiling. A much cleaner idea would be something that TheLadiesOgre is working on...

Not boost per turn. One time stockpile. And really low. Still, the main idea is an option for modders that could be used quite well (like later in the game having an early building using the resource (coal for example) working for a few turns while waiting for real resources from "bleeding".
BTW: if one civ had iron and second hadn't IRL their meeting was really short and fruitful.

 

[TheLadiesOgre]

BTW: if one civ had iron and second hadn't IRL their meeting was really short and fruitful.

Perhaps I should have been a little more clear, in my above example, the only reason Civilization A would have Iron is because of them getting the one-time "here's some Iron for teching Iron Working" not because they actually went though the effort of mining it.