Civ Suggestion: Polynesia

[strijder20]

I really don't see the benefits of adding the Polynesians, for similar reasons the Inuits could added around Greenland. For gameplay, they are useless. Who would want crappy one tile island cities (maybe except the Netherlands), I don't even wish them for the AI. They would handicap the AI even further, haven't we seen enough of those cities, where the AI builds one defender infantry unit for centuries with one hammer?

Well, I'd definitely like to play them myself.

 

[Lennon789]

I'm pretty sure the fact that this thread is 5 pages long and filled mostly with helpful suggestions indicates a popular desire for the inclusion of Polynesia as a civilization. If you don't want to play in this part of the world, just start a Russia campaign.

 

[trexeric]

And think Jusos: the ultimate domination challenge.

 

[civ_king]

That could even be part of their UP then; culture spreads normally over ocean, showing how their culture did spread despite geographic obstacles.

That would be awesome.

 

[blizzrd]

I'm with jusos, Polynesia - why?

Congo adds a source of slaves, which has merit. Polynesia adds?

 

[Lennon789]

The addition of Polynesia gives the player the opportunity to relive one of the most incredible expansions of human culture in world history. The fact that chiefdoms ended up emerging in New Zealand and Hawaii justifies their inclusion among the ranks of civilizations that have settled down into sedentary lifestyles complete with semi-urban and urban settlements.

If a UB hasn't been suggested yet, I propose the pā, which is a fortified Maori hillfort. It would replace walls, and the bonus can be something along the lines of +1 culture, units attacking from the sea get a -50% modifier to attack score.

 

[IrishDragon]

I don't think an AI polynesia should be contactable, should be something like the Celts are. They would be interesting to play though, but contacting an AI leader of polynesia who controls an empire from Hawaii to New Zealand to Madagascar or Indonesia wouldn't feel right.

If a UB hasn't been suggested yet, I propose the pā, which is a fortified Maori hillfort. It would replace walls, and the bonus can be something along the lines of +1 culture, units attacking from the sea get a -50% modifier to attack score.

That wouldn't make sense though, they weren't exactly hard to conquer and we don't want a situation where they're impossible to conquer of the ai is afraid/can't afford to invade

 

[Lennon789]

The main reason I wish to see Polynesia included is to accurately represent the settling of the Pacific Ocean, but I think this can be represented just as well by an unplayable faction in the style of the Seljuks or Celts. I would propose that there be no capital for this faction. I'm not sure if unplayable factions can have a UP, but if so, I think the UP of allowing culture to spread normally over ocean tiles should be included.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Aka it could just as easily be represented through independents.
There are many more significant unrepresented Civilizations.

 

[blizzrd]

Polynesian peoples would be adequately represented if some independent cities spawned at the appropriate dates. Then they would be conquered/vassalised by the various colonial powers as they were discovered. After all, that's what happened.

On a side note, I'd like to see America be more encouraged to settle Hawaii.

Aka it could just as easily be represented through independents.
There are many more significant unrepresented Civilizations.

 

[ius_iurandi]

Since I've seen at least 2 or 3 heated arguments about what civs to include (even as the map is beginning to get crowded) would it be worth compiling them into a thread? I think I agree with the "There are better Civs to do than Polynesia" argument, before even evaluating the merits. But I can't think of what they are at this point. The Celts? Pick-a-proto-Turk? Something Vaguely Scythian (maybe in the Caucasus?)?

Also, I am so glad Blizzrd plays this modmod. I remember watching him school us newbies on how to micro-manage land tiles in Egypt for UHVs, back when Rhye walked the earth, and Another Pacifist first bugged him vis-a-vis, "Hey, how 'bout some other religions?"

 

[JiimBV]

I really don't see the benefits of adding the Polynesians, for similar reasons the Inuits could added around Greenland. For gameplay, they are useless. Who would want crappy one tile island cities (maybe except the Netherlands), I don't even wish them for the AI. They would handicap the AI even further, haven't we seen enough of those cities, where the AI builds one defender infantry unit for centuries with one hammer?

A UB that gives them production in some form for water tiles would work.

 

[Bonci]

But I can't think of what they are at this point. The Celts? Pick-a-proto-Turk? Something Vaguely Scythian (maybe in the Caucasus?)?

Khazars!

About the topic...the gamer part of me would like very much to play this civ. It seems very interesting and different from the other civs.

But the semi history-nerd part of me thinks that, as others have already said, there could be many other civs to add before.
And adding them could in some way create a less "historically correct" representation.

 

[Leoreth]

The main reason I wish to see Polynesia included is to accurately represent the settling of the Pacific Ocean, but I think this can be represented just as well by an unplayable faction in the style of the Seljuks or Celts. I would propose that there be no capital for this faction. I'm not sure if unplayable factions can have a UP, but if so, I think the UP of allowing culture to spread normally over ocean tiles should be included.

My argument would work exactly the other way around, that it would be fun to play as them, because I could imagine that they'd have a unique feeling if I get it right. I'd probably don't want them in the game should I play anyone else, and others are right, if that is the point, we can still use independents (it's not like we have to model a unified military threat like with the Seljuks).

 

[Neshalin]

Is it at all possible to have certain minor civilizations only in the game when played by us, and be represented by independents if we play another civ? Not only Polynesia, but also Tibet and even Maya bring little to the game unless you're playing them, or perhaps playing a neighbour. Maya almost always collapses before the Europeans meet them, for example, and aren't even present in the 600 AD scenario. They are lovely to play but have little impact on the world when AI controlled.

 

[Bonci]

Is it at all possible to have certain minor civilizations only in the game when played by us, and be represented by independents if we play another civ? Not only Polynesia, but also Tibet and even Maya bring little to the game unless you're playing them, or perhaps playing a neighbour.

some time ago (when Baldyr's pyscenario was under development) I had an idea to use that tool to implement something along your suggestion.
It was based on the original RFC and it involved some civ slots that could be used to spawn minor civilizations in relation on what your civilization was.
For example if you were England you could spawn and see a scottish minor civ and maybe a burgundian one to ally with for the control of France.
And if you could settle south africa you probably had to face a zulu uprising.
But if you were to play Russia, Scotland and Burgundy could have been replaced with Poland and the Golden Horde.
They were not at all supposed to flip your cities but they were meant to add historical flavour to every game (with the conditional spawns of a great number of minor civs).

Unfortunately my poor python skills and some obstinate cdts led me to abandon the project

 

[blizzrd]

Maya almost always collapses before the Europeans meet them, for example, and aren't even present in the 600 AD scenario. They are lovely to play but have little impact on the world when AI controlled.

Disagree that Mayans are not represented in 600AD scenario.

The Temple of Kulkallan is in Chichen Itza in the 600AD scenario, along with a settled Great Priest. They are represented by the Natives descendants of the Maya rather than a civ that you can enter diplomacy with, that's all.

 

[JiimBV]

some time ago (when Baldyr's pyscenario was under development) I had an idea to use that tool to implement something along your suggestion.
It was based on the original RFC and it involved some civ slots that could be used to spawn minor civilizations in relation on what your civilization was.
For example if you were England you could spawn and see a scottish minor civ and maybe a burgundian one to ally with for the control of France.
And if you could settle south africa you probably had to face a zulu uprising.
But if you were to play Russia, Scotland and Burgundy could have been replaced with Poland and the Golden Horde.
They were not at all supposed to flip your cities but they were meant to add historical flavour to every game (with the conditional spawns of a great number of minor civs).

Unfortunately my poor python skills and some obstinate cdts led me to abandon the project

That sounds unbelievably amazing. Stunting the player in a fun, historical and unique way and even putting him on the same level as the AI in some cases? Sounds perfect to me.

 

[ImNotHere]

some time ago (when Baldyr's pyscenario was under development) I had an idea to use that tool to implement something along your suggestion.
It was based on the original RFC and it involved some civ slots that could be used to spawn minor civilizations in relation on what your civilization was.
For example if you were England you could spawn and see a scottish minor civ and maybe a burgundian one to ally with for the control of France.
And if you could settle south africa you probably had to face a zulu uprising.
But if you were to play Russia, Scotland and Burgundy could have been replaced with Poland and the Golden Horde.
They were not at all supposed to flip your cities but they were meant to add historical flavour to every game (with the conditional spawns of a great number of minor civs).

Unfortunately my poor python skills and some obstinate cdts led me to abandon the project

OMG, if this could be implemented it would add so much flavour to the game IMO. I feel that as a civ like England, whether Tibet exists or not is irrelevant but as China it is relevant. The opposite is also true, European minor civs make no difference to civs like China and only really impact local neighbours.

I definitely advocate the inclusion of this. If this could be included, it would remove civs irrelevant to the human civ and add more challenge/flavour to the human civ. In the end, isn't that what it's all about? Balancing historical/geopolitical reality with what is more fun?

 

[Bonci]

Uhm, last month I tried to convert my work (along with pyscenario) to DoC, but I had no success...
I can try again but I can't promise anything XD