Civ V Civilizations Roster

[Tusked]

I don't want to sound rude, but I really think you should reconsider that statement.

The Western African civilizations, such as Mali and Songhai, were centers of Islamic learning for several centuries. That's right - they were centers of learning. Their trade was so prosperous, and they were so wealthy, that legend has it that when Mansa Musa visited Mecca and gave out some gold for free, he actually caused the market to go kaploop for a year. And note that these empires' armies were not like the stereotypical tribal warriors running at each other. They fielded large armies organized along the lines of infantry, auxiliaries, and heavy cavalry, much like other powerful states around the world.

We may also take the Berber/Moorish civilizations, for example - they were not the same as the Arabic-Persian Islamic civilization, and they played a huge role in developing Spain; for a time, Moorish-ruled Spain was the most intellectually and culturally advanced society in Europe, and it was also a surprisingly tolerant place, too.

You could also take a look at ancient Nubia. After being dominated by Egypt, they then conquered Egypt and ruled it for a century; even after so, and even though they were heavily influenced by Egypt, they developed their own unique culture, one that successfully resisted Greek, Roman, and Arabic invasions for centuries.

Or, perhaps, look at Ethiopia. They were one of two only African nations to not be colonized by European powers.

Another example are the Swahili, who were famous traders along the East African coast. They played a pivotal role in the Indian Ocean trade for more than a millennia.

Now I do think myself that probably the vanilla game only needs one sub-saharan African civilization, but frankly, I think you really have to think twice before saying that African civilizations didn't develop their own unique, prosperous, and urbane cultures.

Good point about the african things - I'd love a few of the ones you mentioned to be included in an expansion, the Moors especially.

 

[say1988]

The Byzantine Empire was the longest-lasting Empire in essentially the history of the entire west.

The Greek speaking Roman Empire is not really necessary. Sure they were important and a great civilization, but I really don't think should be in due to the limited number of spots. Especially at the expense of deserving civilizations that also help creating greater diversity (cultural and geographic), such as one from sub-Saharan Africa, South-East Asia, or South America.

 

[cybrxkhan]

^I agree. I mean, I really love the Byzantines, and I really admire how they managed to stay alive against all odds, taking the idea of the last stand to impossibly epic levels, but I think they would be better as an expansion-civ. There are too few slots already.

Good point about the african things - I'd love a few of the ones you mentioned to be included in an expansion, the Moors especially.

I think the Moors/Berbers would be a pretty cool civilization to have, too. I think really the only thing working against it is that people would think that it's too similar to Arabia or Carthage, even though it's not.

 

[say1988]

The problem is that, with the limited slots up for consideration, 3 or 4 at the maximum, it doesn't take much for a civ to be "too similar" to another. Note what seems to be a general consensus of Mali and Zulu being mutually exclusive.

 

[Evie]

Despite being polar opposites in gameplay terms.

 

[DroopyTofu]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Korea. I know they weren't that important historically, but I believe I heard that after they were added, sales went up nicely in Korea. Might make a profitable wildcard/surprise civ to add.

 

[Kietharr]

Korea is actually fairly important. They created the first means to mass produce books (nonmovable type printing press) hundreds of years before Gutenberg and the first ironclad ships, almost a thousand years before the Monitor or the Virginia set sail. They're often overlooked with the accomplishments of Japan to the East and China to the west, but they've made some fairly major contributions to the world.

As far as African civs go, the following would probably be worth having:

Egypt
Carthage
Mali
Ethiopia
Zululand
Nubia
Moors

There's a lot of other cultures in Africa but they're very decentralized people-groups and did not tend to build a lot of cities. Civilization in large part draws off of generalizations, it's much harder to generalize the Bantu, or all Swahili speaking peoples than it is to generalize the Ethiopians, or the Zulu.

As far as the actual roster goes, let's go with the statistics. Look at the civs that have been in every civ game from launch (for the purposes of this list civrev never happened):

America
Germany
Aztec
Egypt
India
China
Greece
Rome
France
England
Russians

So that's 11 we can pretty much guarantee we will see again. Next tier is those who appear in every civ game including expansions (were excluded in the launch of civ3 or 4):

Mongols
Babylonians
Zulu

14 civs, then we strike civ1 out of the equation because these were the 14 in civ1. Now the civs that have been present in every launch post civ1

Japanese
Spanish
Persians

One civ would be a wildcard. I'd put my bets on Arabs or Incans.

 

[Tusked]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Korea. I know they weren't that important historically, but I believe I heard that after they were added, sales went up nicely in Korea. Might make a profitable wildcard/surprise civ to add.

That's actually a fair point. I don't like playing Korea terribly much, but it's the most rapidly burgeoning gaming territory in the world, and anything that funds Civ5 expansions is good with me.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Just saw this, but there was a post on another thread that seemed to indicate that Arabia has a very good chance of being in. If you go to the Civilization5 website, you'll notice that at the bottom there are four round buttons. The button on the furthermost right looks something like a Camel Archer.

EDIT: 4000th post!

 

[dannybe]

Oooh an early Christmas. My choice for the included civs are as follows:

Greece
Rome
England
Egypt
Mongol
Inca
France
Spain
Russia
America
China
India
Persia
Arabia
Maya
Songhay (Mali)
Germany
Ottoman

I think I may have to start saving for a new computer.

 

[History buff33]

I am really hoping that the Ottoman Empire FINALLY gets its due and is in vanilla Civ V. At its height, it controlled much of the mediterrannean and much of the Mideast. It controlled Istanbul, one of the most beautiful cities in the world. The Empire was on Par with Europe and China for a long time. Plus, it had a long span from C.1300-C.1922. And if you want to call it the Turkish empire, Ataturk would be a great addition. AS for the other 17, I would like to see the 16 included in CivRev and see the Khmer thrown in as a wildcard Civ.

 

[Mathalamus]

I am really hoping that the Ottoman Empire FINALLY gets its due and is in vanilla Civ V. At its height, it controlled much of the mediterrannean and much of the Mideast. It controlled Istanbul, one of the most beautiful cities in the world. The Empire was on Par with Europe and China for a long time. Plus, it had a long span from C.1300-C.1922. And if you want to call it the Turkish empire, Ataturk would be a great addition. AS for the other 17, I would like to see the 16 included in CivRev and see the Khmer thrown in as a wildcard Civ.

sorry, Istanbul? really?

Istanbul was named such in 1923. it was called Constantinople. or rather its turkish translation.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

sorry, Istanbul? really?

Istanbul was named such in 1923. it was called Constantinople. or rather its turkish translation.

"Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks."

...

 

[say1988]

"Istanbul" predates the Turkish conquest and was the common name amongst Turkish peoples. Kostantiniyye was usually used only as an official name.

Besides it doesn't matter. So long as people know what city you are talking about.

 

[cybrxkhan]

When talking about history, even amongst academics and scholars, so far as I seen, although Constantinople and Istanbul have been used interchangeably when talking about the city during the Ottoman era, oftentimes Istanbul is used, to make it clear that one's talking about Ottoman, post-Byzantine/Roman Constantinople.

 

[Tee Kay]

When talking about history, even amongst academics and scholars, so far as I seen, although Constantinople and Istanbul have been used interchangeably when talking about the city during the Ottoman era, oftentimes Istanbul is used, to make it clear that one's talking about Ottoman, post-Byzantine/Roman Constantinople.

Constantinople/Konstantiniyye remained standard among European and Ottoman chroniclers though until the 1920s, and in Western sources at least I've seen Constantinople used far more often than Istanbul when talking about the Ottoman city. Colloquially though the city was called Stamboul/Istanbul. Europeans preferred "Constantinople" arguably as it's seen as a Christian city under infidel rule to be recaptured.

 

[History buff33]

Istanbul is the name the Ottomans used for the city. But back to the point, the Ottomans should be a vanilla civ based on what they have done in history.

 

[Tee Kay]

Istanbul is the name the Ottomans used for the city.

The Ottoman State was pretty insistent on using Constantinople throughout the time it existed.

 

[Mathalamus]

well the first thing im gonna do to civilization 5 is (if the ottomans are in there) is change the obviously false name of Istanbul to Constantinople.

 

[_random_]

Oooh an early Christmas. My choice for the included civs are as follows:

Greece
Rome
England
Egypt
Mongol
Inca
France
Spain
Russia
America
China
India
Persia
Arabia
Maya
Songhay (Mali)
Germany
Ottoman

I think I may have to start saving for a new computer.

No Monty? To be fair, I suppose the Jaguar could represent the Maya.