Civ3 1.29 beta 2

I just downloaded (finally) the 1.29b2 installer and popped it into my copy of CivIII. However, it appears that this version of the game is not respecting a crucial limitation of Despotism (any square producing more than two of any resource type has the total reduced by one). Is this a known issue? I tried to find a comprehensive list of known issues, but couldn't. Also, is any current development going on the Mac beta 2? It's been in beta for something over a year now. I realize everyone seems to use it anyway, but are there any plans ever to make it an official release?

Thanks.
 
Nope! Despotism rules OK, here! I only play GOTMs and SGOTMs. but they work fine. Do you want to post a save that demonstrates the problem?

As far as I know, Brad Oliver, the lead engineer on the Mac port, sent the 1.29f candidate release to MacSoft for final QA a year or so ago when he left Westlake. It's been buried there ever since, and the assumption has to be that they are not planning to release it. Since attention is shifting to Civ4 now, I suggest we can forget any thoughts of new Mac releases of Civ3 - PtW, C3C or even 1.29f.
 
Okay - you might call me lazy and I'll surely admit being so if you say it, but I really do not want to go over the entire post to get to know the answer to my little question. Wll it be okay to upgrade my version to this one, or should I wait until it comes out of beta ? I can see that severe memoryleaks has been fixed and such, but I really wanna make totally sure that I don't stick my nose into some serious problems when upgrading. Also I'm running 1.21g I think - is there a major difference.

Thanks a bunch.

Btw - I didn't know that such a huge community and updates / patches from 3rd party was avalible - I guess you can really extend the life of an already superb game with all of these things :)


-Daxziz
 
Welcome :wavey:

It'll be a cold day in hell when the beta gets released. Pigs will sprout wings, and peace and international understanding will descend upon the earth. All eyes in the Civ/mac industry have turned towards Civ4 ... we hope.

Use version 1.21g if you like using the editor, as that's the only version it will work with. For everything else, including all actual playing, use 1.29b2 - even if you're playing a scenario you created using 1.21g and the editor.

1.29b2 is as stable as Civ3 will ever get on the Mac, and that's pretty good in my experience as long as you have enough memory and a clean installation. It includes several fixes and enhancements, and it's file compatible with the PC version 1.29f. The last point means it will run 1.29f-compatible mods and you can join in Succession and Training games with PC players. Most important, it means you can join in the Game of the Month competition :D
 
Thank you very much for that superfast reply, AlanH - and thx for the welcome.. always nice to get once you enter a new board :)

I think I have enough RAM ( 1 GB should do right ? ;) ).

Ahh yes... Civilization 4 - look forward to it - been quite some time since I last spend money at a game ( I don't play much besides BG and Civilization 2 and 3 ( There's some things in Civ3 which I misses from Civ2 but that's evolution I guess *heh*) - anyway is it still expected to be released in the end of 2005 ? I haven't seen much info about it, neither for the rumors about Mac edition or not.. last I heard it was a no.. hopefully the release of Mac Mini and stuff like that will play a part now too.

Thanks again :)

-Daxziz
 
1GByte is about what I have. If you are on a dual CPU there is some indication that Civ3 tends to hang between turns. I've never seen any such issues on my lowly single G4 since upgrading to 1.29b2 and/or getting more memory.

There's a brand new dedicated forum just been created for Civ4. See this announcement. It's not high on my list of places to visit before I die, so I've no idea whether there are any screenshots about yet. I understand this month will see a major advance publicity push for it at some convention, so there will probably be more to see then.

I expect to wait a while after the PC folks get their hands on it before (a) appears for the Mac and/or (b) it's stable and playable enough for me to want to buy it.
 
AlanH said:
If you are on a dual CPU there is some indication that Civ3 tends to hang between turns.
The good news (until proven wrong) is that this issue seems to be resolved with Tiger. At least during my last 25 turns of gotm25 it didn't occur, whereas previously it happend every few turns - sometimes repeatedly in one turn.
 
That's very interesting. Tiger has finer resolution thread locking for access to the kernel. See details in the review at Ars Technica. Maybe Civ3 on CPU 1 was competing with Quicktime sound on CPU 2 for access to the disk, and getting into a deadly embrace. Quicktime may now be releasing locks and letting the game in more often.
 
AlanH said:
Nope! Despotism rules OK, here! I only play GOTMs and SGOTMs. but they work fine. Do you want to post a save that demonstrates the problem?

Hmm, I must have miscounted or maybe it was a one-time thing. Subsequent game starts do not show this problem, so I guess it is all working fine. Tech-trading sure is different in this version, though. The AI places a whole new value on them. It's better this way, I think.

Anyway, thanks.
 
AlanH said:
That's very interesting. Tiger has finer resolution thread locking for access to the kernel. See details in the review at Ars Technica. Maybe Civ3 on CPU 1 was competing with Quicktime sound on CPU 2 for access to the disk, and getting into a deadly embrace. Quicktime may now be releasing locks and letting the game in more often.

lol I have no idea what you are talking about but as a geek my self this stuff fascinates me a lot. Could you elaborate and explain in more detail in a simplified way?
 
The Ars Technica article explains it better than I ever could, but here goes:

The Mac OS kernel has services like disk storage and networking access which have to be provided by a queueing mechanism. Only one running program can be allowed to read or write to the disk at one time, and only one can be allowed to send or receive data on the ethernet at once. A program writing to disk is granted access and locks the disk access service, preventing other programs from accessing the disk until it has finished. It then unlocks the disk access service and the next program is granted access. On Panther the whole disk access subsystem is considered a single resource that must be locked while in use.

Civ3 runs several programs concurrently. One is the actual game program that you interact with directly. Another is the audio soundtrack which Civ3 kicks off by asking Quicktime to play sounds. Quicktime has to read disk files in order to produce the sound effects. Civ3 also has to read and write disk files in order to get the graphics that it displays, and when it wants to create an autosave, for example. If there are two CPUs then the Civ3 game may be running on one and the Quicktime sound track on the other. The kernel will see these as two programs competing for disk access.

Still with me? So far I think I've described a set of facts. Now I'm going to speculate:

Let's imagine that Civ3 tells Quicktime "Play a sound file, and tell me when you've finished". It then starts to create an autosave. Quicktime acquires a lock on the disk system from the kernel in order to read the music file. Civ3 is locked out of the file system and can't proceed with writing the Autosave. Civ3 is busy, so when Quicktime calls back to say "Done that, what next?" Civ3 can't hear. Eventually something (probably Quicktime) gets fed up with waiting and times out, releasing the disk access lock. Civ3 can then write its file and life can continue.

The grid-lock I've described is known in the trade as a "deadly embrace" where two programs are both waiting for each other to finish before they can continue. I have no idea whether there are actually such opportunities in Civ3, but if they do exist then multiple processors will make them much more likely to be a problem, as a single processor already sequences the programs that it's running, reducing the chances of concurrent requests for the same resources.

Fast forward to Tiger. Tiger doesn't use a single lock for the entire disk access process when a program wants to use it. It only locks the bits of file access that the program needs at the time. This means programs that know better will only ask for exclusive locked access to the component they need, then release that lock and acquire a lock for the next piece. Quicktime is undoubtedly one such program. In my speculative scenario above this would mean that Quicktime would never lock up the whole file system on Tiger, Civ3 would be able to get in and do its autosave, and the software would not hang.
 
tao said:
Just checked: Civ 3 runs as 7 threads.

If you check the crash logs you find a varying number. I have logs containing 8 threads. Others only have 2. Every time, though, there's a CivIII main thread and one for CoreAudio, which is Quicktime. My Civ3 is currently running in Paused state with 5 threads up according to Thread Viewer.
 
After updating to 1.29 B2:

1- 1440x900 screen resolution is gone
2- SpaceShip finishes, nothing happens! S sign at the bottom left corner does nothing
3- Smaller screen resolutions are not in the center (bigger monitors)
4- Can't open saved files in PC Civ-Savegame editor
 
Hello Yazdgerd :wavey: Welcome to MacCivFanatics.

1. Was this screen resolution supported in your previous version? Which one was that? You may be able to use this utility to allow you to adjust 1.29b2 to work on your screen.

2. Is Spaceship victory enabled in your game? It works for me. Is your Civ3 CD the English version?

3. I don't know what causes this. Maybe the above utility will allow the game to play on a bigger monitor without wasting space.

4. Please can you post a saved game here and I'll take a look at it. I've never tried to use a saved game editor, but I do know that my saved games are compatible with Civ3 for PC, as I play succession games and GOTM, and swap files with PC players with no problems at all.
 
AlanH said:
Hello Yazdgerd :wavey: Welcome to MacCivFanatics.

1. Was this screen resolution supported in your previous version? Which one was that? You may be able to use this utility to allow you to adjust 1.29b2 to work on your screen.

You guys are great, what a fast reply! I am surprised :)

Yes, 1440 by 900 was supported in version 1.21, I am using a 17" G4 PB, and that utility was helpful! Thanks AlanH, everything is solved, I will send you a saved game as soon as I find out how :)

Cheers!
 
You can send a save just by attaching it to a post here. Click "Go Advanced" and you'll find a button to "Manage Attachments". Alternatively email it to alanh@gotm.civfanatics.net
 
Sorry to dig up really old topics, but I can't seem to update my version from 1.16 to 1.29b2 using the installer. I'm having the same problem people have mentioned before in this topic; I double click on the installer, but no files are installed. Anybody know how I can get the installer to work?
 
Which of the screens I published in my post a page or two back do you see when you try to run the installer?
 
I see only the "preparing to install..." box, which takes a few seconds to process, but nothing is installed, and it moves on to the completed box where it asks to continue or quit. I've tried hitting continue to see if that works, but no luck. I've also tried saving in numerous folders, downloading the patch from your sig, and also from Brad Oliver's original post. Still, it won't update... the splash screen still reads v1.16.
 
Top Bottom