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Civ4 BTS v3.19 Patch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Speaker, Jun 10, 2009.

  1. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    So for the case we're interested in,

    iMaxOverflow = iProductionNeeded
    iMaxOverflowForGold = iProductionNeeded

    iOverflow = iMaxOverflow (in the case we're interested in)

    iOverflow > 0

    so I assume this line means iOverflow is reduced if the hammer multiplier was greater than 0%

    iProductionGold = max(0,(some number less than or equal to iProductionNeeded) - iProductionNeeded) = max(0, some number that cannot be greater than 0) = 0 (uh oh!)
     
  2. Balderstrom

    Balderstrom Emperor

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    It means, things that add +XX% to collateral defense, or +XX% to damage
    Will actually increase the base by XX%

    Previously in the code, it would start with a base (integer) of 100 and then the code would add or subtract integers from/to 100. There were a number of cases where you could actually wind up with a value less than 0.

    And when you would add +xx% attack -xx% defense the code would just add and subtract integer values, instead of actually applying a percentage increase/decrease of the related values (ie multiplication).

    I mentioned this over in Solver's thread when I used to participate in the Collateral debate. But I believe I was overruled ;)

    For Example:
    A unit with +100% Collateral damage, 100 + 100% = 200
    vs a unit with +50% Collateral Protection: 200 - 50 = 150
    So you take 150% damage from Collateral damage, instead of 100%,

    Another Example:
    A unit with +100% Collateral damage, 100 + 100% = 200
    vs a unit with +100% Collateral Protection: 200 - 100 = 100
    So you take 100% damage, instead of 0.

    A unit with 50% Collateral protection should take 1/2 damage.
    A unit with 100% protection should be immune :)

    So if the code is now doing multiplication instead of addition, it should actually work as the in-game descriptions state it works.
     
  3. Balderstrom

    Balderstrom Emperor

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    Isn't the no gold overflow just bringing BTS back to how CIV Vanilla functioned prior to some of the later patches?
     
  4. Caboose

    Caboose Another Drill IV defender

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    Aha, ok thanks.

    Wait, doesn't this mean that the Drill promotions now get a slight boost? That vs units with more than 100% collateral damage, they are now taking less damage from these?
     
  5. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    On second thought, I'm not sure I did that right, because I'm not sure exactly what is done by getCurrentProductionDifference, and getProductionDifference.
     
  6. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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    Without something like this, the power of buildings that generate :espionage: would be reduced. I guess some people would prefer the one, other people the other.
    Is this really a "trick"? I'd have thought it was the way one would want SVN to work.
    What's "MM"?
     
  7. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    So basically the new patch does indeed introduce at the very least one bug that should be solvable with a new unofficial patch.

    I still think that the MM implications are not that bad though. If you time your builds and chops carefully you would not get that much overflow anyway. This does not mean that we now need to micro our socks off, it just means that we should not be so chop-happy. When you do not actively aim for overflow I find that in my games I would rarely see overflow anyway. With maybe a slight adjustment in playingstyle and a little more care we should be fine.
     
  8. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    micromanagement, the managing of resources on the smallest scale, that is on a tile by tile basis (in the case of hammers).
     
  9. Bei1052

    Bei1052 Emperor

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    I downloaded it and tried to play it with Carter's Earth map. It didn't work, so I just system restored back to before I downloaded it :'(

    Maybe it'll work for someone else, though.
     
  10. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Specifically I mean the spin boxes, and the drag and drop functionality.
     
  11. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    I agree, but wouldn't it be wiser to just find a way to remove those esp buildings from the game? As it is, those 4 esp buildings are the easiest way to gain 44 (I think that's how much) culture. (+2+4+8+8)*2. Then assigning spies means they are effectively artists but without polluting the genepool. So you can get great engineers or great scientists etc. far more easily. Just everything about the No Espionage mode is broken while esp points are turned into culture.

    Solution would be to remove spy specialists, remove buildings like the security beureau especially, since it serves no purpose in a No Espionage game, remove the Intelligence Agency, maybe reduce the cost of the jail if it is deemed to be too weak without the esp bonus, and leave the courthouse alone.

    When whipping a warrior means hammers will be wasted, that's sure MM. MM issues are minimised when players who are good at MM don't have to do much more than players who can't be bothered MM'ing. Now the timing of chops is more critical than before. Staggering chops is almost always going to be the better option now.
     
  12. Woody1

    Woody1 Prince

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    Not really. I do agree it results in too much culture, but it's not a game-breaker. It simply means your game emphasizes culture, rather than espionage. Turn off the culture victory condition and the city flips from culture, if it bothers you.

    Again, a minor thing. Why would you deliberately time all your chops to finish on the same turn anyway?

    If I understand the new patch correctly, you still get a bit of overflow, which should be okay for almost all situations except those which you time multiple chops to end on the same turn. Or am I confusing the hammer overflow with the gold overflow?

    I have no issue with the overflow being addressed in an unofficial patch. I don't think the "no espionage" thing should be touched. Clarification: if there are random events that trigger epionage points in a no-espionage game, those should be fixed.
     
  13. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    It also means it's easier to get great engineers.

    Ok, it might not break the game as such, but it makes it so drastically different to what one would expect, that it might as well be called broken. The fact that you have to turn off cultural victories just to make it playable is a good indicator of this. And removing culture flips from the game, which IMO are a pretty important part of the game, is not acceptable.


    That's exactly my point. I don't deliberately time my chops to finish at the same time. But if I have 3 workers finish a job simultaneously and I want them to move onto 3 separate adjacent forests and chop, I'm going to have to go out of my way to ensure they don't finish at the same time. That's more MM than before. 3 chops spread out takes more MM and is less wasteful than 3 chops on the same turn.

    Unfortunately the change intended by the patch was mucked up. It appears that there is absolutely no gold from overflow anymore - if the overflow hammers exceed the cost of the item, excess hammers are wasted and not turned into gold (though rolo seems to be arguing there are cases where you get a little bit of gold - I have not observed these).


    I agree the No Espionage change would not be suitable for a UP. I just wanted to express my disappointment that nothing was done about it officially - it is unfortunately unclear what the best way is to fix it because so little has been done about it.
     
  14. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

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    I think people were complaining about all their improvements being blown up. Thus the 'No EP' option. It would have been easier to just put in an option that gimped what you can do with EPs (no sabotage, etc).
     
  15. NHJ BV

    NHJ BV El Presidente

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    It's probably worth mentioning that the Steam version now has the patch available, and that since some time, Steam now has the option of disabling automatic patching. So if you have the Steam version of BTS and don't want to patch, turn it off under the properties of the game.
     
  16. Darkshadows

    Darkshadows Chieftain

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    I ticked the box for no auto updates and it still tries to update.
     
  17. Gurra09

    Gurra09 First Consul

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    Does anybody know if there are any XML changes in the 3.19 patch?
     
  18. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    When I got home I downloaded the patch. While doing this I decided to remove Civ IV complete with the uninstaller and then I removed all traces of it from my HD manually. Now I reinstalled it and applied the new patch. the new oatch said that it updated the game from 3.17 to 1.19... Basically the uninstaller left some trace of the game lingering around because the patch thought I had 3.17 around.

    So is this a standalone patch or do we need 3.17 applied? My install was in fact a 3.13 from my civ IV complete DVD. Would you guys reckon everything would be fine or is there a good chance something went wrong?
     
  19. Woody1

    Woody1 Prince

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    Yes, there are.
     
  20. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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